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'Rota' talk on this site

Split from TV Forum: New for (the middle of) 2020

NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
I'd simply echo what Pete wrote above - "this [Rota] stuff that is just either logging or speculation about newsreader working hours. It's creepy" and I would also argue what London Lite said above - "The only time rota chat is useful is when there's a significant change".

That's where I stand on the issue. If Presenter X retires and their strand is retired and/or Presenter Y takes over and that changes that section of the BBC News channel schedule from a presentation point of view , yes fine, discuss it for a bit. But when we get to "where's Presenter Y gone? I don't like Presenter Z in that slot, he/she doesn't work", that's not really what a lot of us signed up for.

I've been here 19 years, I'm practically part of the furniture. I think I can reasonably work out what a lot of us founders signed up for by now, and it wasn't "why is Fred doing the News Hour instead of Shaggy?" type posts. No, I signed up for TV Forum, which is defined on the home page as discussing "television presentation and news, branding, schedules and programmes". I'd be inclined to argue the regular rolling news portions of news channels (outside of Breaking News) are not programmes. Their presentation graphics and their other stuff (The Pledge, Outside Source and what not), yeah fine, let's discuss how wonderful/meh/crap the graphics/presentation/back half programmes/whatever is on Sky/BBC/CNN/RT.
PE
Pete Founding member North Reporting Scotland
I'd set the boundary as a couple of concepts and anything smaller than that is a no by default. I mean people can argue their case but its maybe a start.

My line would be as follows

✅ The whole Breakfast team leave
✅ Susanna or Piers leaves GMB
✅ Beyond 100 days returns with a new presenting team and a new look
✅ Katty Kay jumps ship to CNN
✅ Simon McCoy does something funny

❌Once it is established that Ben Bland is the new presenter of WNA (to replace Katty), discussion of who will fill his morning shift followed by a fantasy football series of transfers and complex rota planning spreadsheets
❌Why is Samira Ahmed missing for one single episode of Newswatch
❌Two presenters swap their normal hours on bog standard news channel hours (not a full named show, see Neil's logic of it not being a programme as such)
❌The weather presenter that I don't even know the name of leaves GMB

I mean... that sounds reasonable to me? Happy to take questions or comments.
Last edited by Pete on 14 September 2020 8:10pm
ELM 2011: I am sick of been persicuted by you immature TV Forumers!
FR
freddied056 Meridian (South) South Today
My thoughts:

Rota chat on here generally goes too far. I’d say it’s fine to talk about, say, Alex Beresford presenting GMB for the first time (and maybe making a fleeting mention of him doing it again), or an unusual pick of presenter for a BBC News special, but leave it at that. Don’t turn it into a full-on discussion, which is irritating, unnecessary and can get creepy.

I’m a little concerned that the GMB thread has been closed (a large amount due to rota chat), as I much prefer an ongoing thread and it could lead to people treating the forum like DS and creating a new thread for every minor GMB change. However, I have faith that the mods will stop this.
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NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
I’m a little concerned that the GMB thread has been closed (a large amount due to rota chat), as I much prefer an ongoing thread and it could lead to people treating the forum like DS and creating a new thread for every minor GMB change. However, I have faith that the mods will stop this.


While it is always better to post in an existing thread than to start a new one, the exception to this is if a) the thread is older than God's dog, b) if it doesn't add anything of interest to the existing thread (or if its off topic to that thread), and c) there is no other suitable thread.

However as a general rule threads are like plants - pay them no attention and they'll die. So if somebody starts a thread saying the GMB clock has moved two pixels to the left, best thing we can do is just ignore it and the thread'll soon drop off the first page. So the problem takes care of itself. And if they bump it, we'll do the "bumping is frowned upon" thing.

Somebody has to stand up for forum etiquette after all.
AN
Andrew Founding member Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
My thoughts:

Rota chat on here generally goes too far. I’d say it’s fine to talk about, say, Alex Beresford presenting GMB for the first time (and maybe making a fleeting mention of him doing it again), or an unusual pick of presenter for a BBC News special, but leave it at that. Don’t turn it into a full-on discussion, which is irritating, unnecessary and can get creepy.

I’m a little concerned that the GMB thread has been closed (a large amount due to rota chat), as I much prefer an ongoing thread and it could lead to people treating the forum like DS and creating a new thread for every minor GMB change. However, I have faith that the mods will stop this.

I’d agree with all that.

I’d say Alex presenting GMB on Thursday is acceptable at this stage, as up to now he did two days in the heart of summer, so the fact he many now be regular cover is worthy of a mention.

Endless debate of why he’s been chosen and why everybody else hasn’t isn’t acceptable

I’d probably leave the GMB thread open, as to be fair, you are never more than a day away from some new pres on there

Endless commentary on the day to day going ons on the news channel isn’t acceptable either, it’s literally like a chat room, with the same posts over and over again, and the slightly disturbing posts you get where people try to guess why Martine Croxall presented a different shift today
CM
cmthwtv West Country (East) Points West
I feel hypocritical writing this because up until only a few weeks ago did I stop involving myself in rota talk.

My take is this:

Many newer members (myself included) forget the fact that it is a TV presentation forum rather than just any old Bob from Bristol did a two way on Newsnight tonight. If rota discussion remains locked/non-existent it does give an impression that this is just simply not the place for it.

Personally, if something like shift time changes, then it should probably be worthy of comment. However, when for example 'Kay Burley @Breakfast' became just 'Kay Burley', we had a preceding 10 days of people trying to work out if this was generally the case, and then a few furthermore days of people saying that Sunrise should return.

I would advise on a personal level to those who are so engaged in rota discussion (as I was until recently) to seriously think before hitting post. I'm sure many of us have been guilty of finding ourselves posting something probably not worthy of comment, and this is generally what makes rota discussion so unbareable.
BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Rota talk bores me rigid, as does pages on minor logo changes, but logging into the main forums tonight with multiple threads now locked it feels like we're in a discussion forum where discussion is no longer allowed.

Frankly there is not enough happening in the world of presentation alone at the moment for a long established community to discuss on a daily basis - it just doesn't evolve in the way it once did, and although that area should always be the backbone of this forum it feels too narrow a brief for the forum to be the engaging community it can be.

Yes, sometimes things go off topic but most of us here now are older, wiser (well, in most cases?) and willing to engage in discussion that goes beyond fonts and ident selection. There are other places for that to happen of course, but in some cases, especially the three of four occassions in the last six months when members here have spoken openly about their concerns about the world we are now living in, discussion has been shut down completely rather than a bit of support shown from those that run the place to long term members just sharing a brief moment of vulnerability and reminding us we're all people behind the posts here who generally have much bigger concerns than Oneness. A bit more compassion in some of the moderation decisions would go a long way.


Whilst always appreciating this site is Asa's baby and we are here by invitation, it is beginning to feel more like a classroom than a community - and that is a real shame, especially as it is a community that has provided a welcome distraction for many not just in recent months but at times over the last couple of decades too. It's also really sad to see a few long term members of this community stop posting here in recent weeks, just not feeling as welcome as they once were.
Last edited by Brekkie on 14 September 2020 9:21pm
Turns out nobody had 2020 vision.
DW
DavidWhitfield Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
I don't expect this to go down very well, but as someone who has enjoyed posting on this site for the past seven years, I wanted to put my two penneth in, for what it's worth.

I personally think there's a big difference between:

"Does anyone know who presented at 2pm today?" or "Why has Clive not done the 6pm shift for a while? Do you think [insert conjecture/speculation here]?"

and

"Alex Beresford is presenting GMB for only the second time ever later this week."

In the latter case, it is surely worthy of note? Not a four-page-long discussion, but it is, at least, giving a piece of information about the programme in question which will be interesting/surprising to some, and - I concede - not so interesting to others.

Let's face it, though - we're all on this site because we share a very niche (as far as the general population goes) interest in all things television and media.

Surely a passing reference to someone unexpected presenting a programme you enjoy watching (in the case of the above example) is exactly the kind of thing we can mention here? We sure as hell can't to our family and friends - I recently received the mother of all withering looks when I referred to ITV's newly designed promo graphics in the presence of my father - so it seems a shame that we're now being so prescriptive in terms of what users are 'allowed' to talk about with the few people who might actually be interested.
Guess who's big in the back time!
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
Frankly there is not enough happening in the world of presentation alone at the moment for a long established community to discuss on a daily basis - it just doesn't evolve in the way it once did, and although that area should always be the backbone of this forum it feels too narrow a brief for the forum to be the engaging community it can be.


Presentation doesn't just stop at Oneness. We haven't had a Cue Dot discussion for a while - this from 2016 seems to be the last long-form meaningful one on that, and this ITV Schools thread may have been the last long form discussion on that package.

I like those sorts of threads that are presentation related on the one hand, but also serve to highlight the behind-the-scenes working that made the entire system possible. I think we've missed those sorts of threads on here as of late, as they're really fascinating.
NL
Ne1L C Recently warned Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I have been a forum member for a long time and for me it has been a lifeline and as an outlet for my interests in tv presentation.

I find rota changes and minor logo changes to be as dull as ditchwater and don’t enter into discussions about them.

I understand and share the view that forums have to have rules it would be ridiculous if they did not.

But with rules there must also be respect and while I know that the vast majority of us do respect each other and our views even if our views don’t tally there seems to me a small but increasingly troubling issue and that is one of constraint.

Yes this is a forum about tv presentation but television does more than simply inform, educate and entertain it also reflects the world in which we live in.

Right now the world we are living in is a troubled one. The news bulletins pump out hour after hour of doom, gloom, death and disaster. Such stimuli scares us and worries us

Like everyone else i have tried to get some form of understanding about what we are dealing with and in the absence of conventional places to talk eg work, university etc many of us, myself included have turned to forums.

Now like most of us I have tried to be as conscientious as possible in asking questions and posting opinions and I suppose it’s been natural to run into people with different views.

But I’ve noticed a disturbing effect of locking horns with people who seem intent on either shutting debate or more seriously shutting down people themselves.

Now whilst these people are in a minority they seem to be everywhere and has already been noted it has been noted many long term members have effectively left.

Now I tried to ignore these people but I have learnt that if you don’t deal with these people they grow in venom.

Now I will admit I have been a pain in the rear end especially with the mocks but I have always tried to be courteous even though some of my posts have been a bit catty which I apologised for.

Asa and the rest of the mods have we can all agree done a first class job with creating a superb forum but the world in which we are living in a terrifying one and it’s one where we are frantically trying to find some form of support

Yes there is metropol but quite frankly all metropol is doing is acting as a barker for tvf.

This post will probably get me kicked or banned. If it does i want to say this:

I don’t want TVF to collapse. No one does but as our world changes maybe the forum needs to change.
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BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Asa posted:
I'm not entirely sure why anyone is discussing Loose Women on here to be honest. I know they had a couple of new looks in quite a short space of time but it doesn't feel like a thread that really belongs here.

That has always baffled me - we are surely as far away from the target audience as possible considering the membership here is largely male.

Asa posted:
There's a forum I came across the other day where off-topic comments were hidden behind a link, a bit like the spoiler tag, which is maybe an effective tool as a first step. If we're getting a number of off-topic posts from a poster then action can start to be taken.

I like that idea - the BGT posts yesterday which undoubtedly strayed off topic is a good example where that would work. Also as mentioned above I've not liked it when people in some cases have shared quite personal feelings about the Coronavirus situation only to have their posts wiped, and that would be a fair compromise. On the whole though a "move along" warning from the moderator rather than nuking the posts concerns seems the fairest way to move forward.


Maybe generic threads actually now are the problem rather than the solution to keeping discussion flowing and fresh, so arguably if it's not worthy of a new thread it's not worthy of discussion.
Turns out nobody had 2020 vision.
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PE
Pete Founding member North Reporting Scotland
Rota talk bores me rigid, as does pages on minor logo changes, but logging into the main forums tonight with multiple threads now locked it feels like we're in a discussion forum where discussion is no longer allowed.

Frankly there is not enough happening in the world of presentation alone at the moment for a long established community to discuss on a daily basis - it just doesn't evolve in the way it once did, and although that area should always be the backbone of this forum it feels too narrow a brief for the forum to be the engaging community it can be.


I mean that's bc it literally happened today. I think you've got to balance it with the fact that when I visit TVF and see a whole page of green threads, I don't find myself excited to read it. I find myself filled with dread at having to trudge through the guff to find something worthwhile. I'd much rather have 1/3 less posts if the 2/3 that are left are interesting.
ELM 2011: I am sick of been persicuted by you immature TV Forumers!

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