Compliant or not Compliant: Also known as - Fix your cappy coding

PE

Pete Founding member 30 July 2003 9:44pm

As many of you know I am a great believer in web standards and the use of them in sites. That (and a major discussion in the chatroom) is why we have decided to start this topic.

Basically we want to encourage people to convert to clean - standards compliant code instead of old fashioned legacy divvel.

So what is this topic for? Well two things.
For a start it is asking people to use standards in their websites and help with doing so.
Secondly it is to shop websites with dire coding that shouldn't even display in IE let alone one of the better browsers available.

Let the evangelism begin.

Recommended Reading:
alistapart - To Hell With Bad Browsers
99% of all websites are obsolete

BB

Big Brother Founding member 30 July 2003 9:48pm

Well there is one site that is simply dire in the coding department.

Man oh man, how did you get a Qualification in Web Design Mr Anderson. The coding on The TV Room is awful. On every page you have the <head></head> tags with information about the page 5 times or more. Your docutypes are also place half way down the page and you continue to have them in there.

You only need one darling. Right at the top of the page. Not 5 spread throughout the page.

Also, use the correct method of using a flash plugin. You've mearly plonked a one line piece of code in there which really is no use. If a user doesn't have the Flash plugin the page doesn't appear to prompt them to install it. (Take a look at the Macromedia site for more help)

Visit www.thetvroom.com and it's surrounding pages to see what I mean. (Maybe altering the code would speed it up slightly)

PE

Pete Founding member 30 July 2003 9:57pm

Oh I know about that one. I was going to PM mike the other day.

The coding on that site is so bad that even the W3C Validator can't get it's head round it (maybe it;s the doctype halfway down the page).

If you got rid of all the junk from that page (especially the numerous head tags) the size would come down by about 30% which I'm sure would save you plenty wonga.

I can't even udnerstand what Martin has done to get code this bad - made SSI inserts but not removed the stuff around them or something?

Oh and FrontPage - no. No further comment except Dreamweaver MX.

:-(

A former member 31 July 2003 12:19am

I'm not particularly up to scratch on web coding, but why does it matter? I think The TV Room is one of the best sites going and people who moan about irrelevant (IMO) bits of code, which don't affect things in a major way are just being picky.

Why create a site in Dreamweaver and all written personally in HTML when there's FrontPage!

:-(

A former member 31 July 2003 12:25am

I visited such a place of assembly forwards, but I could not for such a miracle cause, for that the language, which can attach my nature possibly not with, not an end cause could sufficient resemblation. Does any friend have entrance to a net manufacturer with Icelandic convertion?

MD

mdtauk 31 July 2003 12:33am

As I have been brought into the fray, could you please give me the exact URL of the page in question...

As for the Flash Coding, I am using the code generated when publishing from Flash Itself, not independantly coding it myself. I'm a designer, not a programer, and I dont wish to go into web design ever, if I did, I would take a course in it, and not Visual Effects, 3D Modelling, Digital Animation, Video Production/Vision Mixing and Digital Multimedia Design.

PE

Pete Founding member 31 July 2003 1:03am

martinDTanderson posted:

As I have been brought into the fray, could you please give me the exact URL of the page in question...

As for the Flash Coding, I am using the code generated when publishing from Flash Itself, not independantly coding it myself. I'm a designer, not a programer, and I dont wish to go into web design ever, if I did, I would take a course in it, and not Visual Effects, 3D Modelling, Digital Animation, Video Production/Vision Mixing and Digital Multimedia Design.

well this was the homepage - I've read your PM by the way - I'll reply to it tomorrow morning when I'm awake.

as for you Lars - SILENCE.

And Craig - the reason why is "interoperabilty" or in words that people use, it should work anywhere and everywhere with minimum effort. More waffle tomorrow - I'm off to sing the national anthem and go to News 24 now.

BB

Big Brother Founding member 31 July 2003 11:02am

martinDTanderson posted:

As I have been brought into the fray, could you please give me the exact URL of the page in question...

As for the Flash Coding, I am using the code generated when publishing from Flash Itself, not independantly coding it myself. I'm a designer, not a programer, and I dont wish to go into web design ever, if I did, I would take a course in it, and not Visual Effects, 3D Modelling, Digital Animation, Video Production/Vision Mixing and Digital Multimedia Design.

I told you about this weeks ago martin. You started off by telling me what I was seeing didn't exist. Then when I told you about the rest of your little errors you just ignored them.

Also you do claim to be qualified in Web Design in another topic, as you did on MSN also in your status.

And also Flash does not generate that code. Flash will automatically use this code, which checks for the flash plugin, then goes and get's it if you don't have it.

Quote:

And if your not going to take up in web design... ever. Then why have you bothered to do and extensive re-design of The TV Room.???

:-(

A former member 31 July 2003 3:26pm

If he doesn't know the code, he should've used the Flash default. New backgrounds, headers, and logo would've been enough to constitute a new look though...

MD

mdtauk 31 July 2003 4:27pm

Quote:

I told you about this weeks ago martin. You started off by telling me what I was seeing didn't exist. Then when I told you about the rest of your little errors you just ignored them.

As Far as my Sent PMs show, the only reply I gave to your question on the width of the banner on the front page the banner image should only by 775... I did not deny the problems with the code. Also FYI I am not responsible for the coding of every page, mearly the design elements and all the images etc. The pages are coded by Mike McGonagle, except for TVmocks and TVfonts.

Quote:

Also you do claim to be qualified in Web Design in another topic, as you did on MSN also in your status.

I said I had gained my BTEC National Diploma in Multimedia, which includes 2 units on Web Design and Basic HTML Code at a Distinction Level...

[quote]And also Flash does not generate that code. Flash will automatically use this code, which checks for the flash plugin, then goes and get's it if you don't have it.[quote]
I am not responsible for putting the flash on the home page or the TV Room + page, I only made the flash animation.

Quote:

And if your not going to take up in web design... ever. Then why have you bothered to do and extensive re-design of The TV Room.???

Mike McGonagle asked my if I wanted to work with him on the design of the site, and I am able to make good designs. I sent my design ideas to Mike and he implimented them onto HTML pages. With the main design decided, I then was responsible for making all the images and working out certain tweaks to the design as we went on.

You may realise in time, that Web Designers often have traditional graphic designers working on designs, which Web Programmers will turn into HTML.

BB

Big Brother Founding member 31 July 2003 5:06pm

After the one regarding the banner at 775, which is also slightly too big for an 800x600 display, I sent you one with all the examples and you blantly ignored it. Don't lie, I remember sending it and thinking that should really pee him off.

Mr Anderson of course I realise in some cases there are Designers for sites and Programmers, in probably most cases these are the same people.

In your case, seen as you were incharge of the design of the site you should really be in charge of it's overall structure leaving only the content to Mike..

(Above you also said you used the code generated from Flash for the banners, now your saying you didn't do it. Maybe you need to have words with Mike then.)

TV

The TV Room 31 July 2003 5:46pm

Big Brother posted:

In your case, seen as you were incharge of the design of the site you should really be in charge of it's overall structure leaving only the content to Mike..

Yet another worthwhile thread.

Some facts:

=> The design of the main site was based on original layouts from myself. Martin and I have applied various tweaks to that design over the last twelve months or so. All of the more complex work, such as page banners, background images and menu images are all Martin's work.

=> TV Room Plus was designed entirely by Martin, with minor tweaks applied by me.

Martin has been of tremendous assistance with the graphics on TV Room and is undoubtedly very talented in that respect (and there are a lot of jealous people out there). I really don't have the time to spend on such things. As I have said on many occasions in the past, I already spend enough of my own time looking after the content on this site. I have to draw the line somewhere.

=> No page layout/design changes are applied without being okayed by me.

=> I am responsible for the updating of all content on TV Room and TV Room Plus, with the exception of TV Mocks and TV Fonts. I, therefore, apply the designs to the pages. Where a particular aspect of the design needs to be tweaked globally, I will put together some script...run it against all pages...and make a global change.

Yes, stylesheets are an option...BUT, there's so much variation in colour schemes and formatting on TV Room, it wouldn't really save that much in the long run. And I really, really couldn't be arsed making all the necessary adjustments for stylesheet usage. If someone feels they'd like to update 800 odd pages, then drop me a line.

A small number of other pages are updated externally. Only I have access to the entire site, with Martin and a couple of others having restricted access to folders relevant to them.

I honestly couldn't give a flying one about some sections of inefficient code. I am only too willing to let packages like FrontPage bring the code together for me. I see no noteable impacts.

Personally, I don't visit websites to look at how marvellous or dire the code behind them is.

If there was a serious impact on the download of the pages, I'd certainly review the situation. However, in the case of TV Room, I do not believe that there is. Most people want slightly larger than average images...and unfortunately, these do take slightly longer to download. Broadband viewers will particularly enjoy the extensive number of images.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's a HOBBY SITE!!

If someone is prepared to start paying me for maintaining TV Room, I will then, perhaps, consider looking into the inefficient sections of HTML.

Compliant or not Compliant

Also known as - Fix your cappy coding (July 2003)