« Topics
1234...678
noggin12,117 posts since 26 Jun 2001
(1/150th shuttered 50i looks very odd - i.e. SuperSlowMo cameras cut to air live)


I always found 1/100th shuttered 50i to look the most natural - it's what I've used in the past when I've had to simulate motion blur. 1/50th was too blurry, though I had expected it to be the most natural.


1/100th always looks a bit 'shuttered' to me though. It's effectively a 180degree shutter - so gives 50i a 'film look' at twice the frame rate. (I have seen it used very effectively though - particularly on music)
davidhorman1,589 posts since 8 Mar 2005
Channel Channel Islands
1/100th always looks a bit 'shuttered' to me though. It's effectively a 180degree shutter - so gives 50i a 'film look' at twice the frame rate. (I have seen it used very effectively though - particularly on music)


I'd argue it could be a good look for drama... if producers were actually prepared to try and make some that way anyway.


It might go some way to mitigating the supposed "cheap" look (which is all just in our heads anyway), but it might go the other way - mobile video, which is becoming more watched, tends to have the high-speed shutter look, probably for hardware performance reasons.

Mucking about with a bit of Eastenders makes me think they use about a 270 degree shutter equivalent.
noggin12,117 posts since 26 Jun 2001
1/100th always looks a bit 'shuttered' to me though. It's effectively a 180degree shutter - so gives 50i a 'film look' at twice the frame rate. (I have seen it used very effectively though - particularly on music)


I'd argue it could be a good look for drama... if producers were actually prepared to try and make some that way anyway.


50p drama is unlikely any time soon. Too many producers associate it with soap and 'cheap'. I saw a very good Swedish costume drama shot with all the production values, lighting etc. of a high-budget drama, but at 50Hz (probably an early 720/50p HD production) and it looked great.
james-20011,593 posts since 13 Sep 2015
Central (East) East Midlands Today
There' actually a new Ang Lee film coming out that was shot at 120fps, don't know how mant cinemas will be able to show it that way though. If it's anything like The Hobbit, it will probably just be dismissed out of hand as not "looking like a film should look like" (plenty of which came before they had even seen a frame of it).
noggin12,117 posts since 26 Jun 2001
1/100th always looks a bit 'shuttered' to me though. It's effectively a 180degree shutter - so gives 50i a 'film look' at twice the frame rate. (I have seen it used very effectively though - particularly on music)


I'd argue it could be a good look for drama... if producers were actually prepared to try and make some that way anyway.


It might go some way to mitigating the supposed "cheap" look (which is all just in our heads anyway), but it might go the other way - mobile video, which is becoming more watched, tends to have the high-speed shutter look, probably for hardware performance reasons.


I doubt it - the smooth motion you get with 50Hz capture is the issue for most. Though at least if you shot 1080p50 you could say 'it was shot progressive'... (And some might not notice...)

I'm not sure what you mean about mobile video - unless you mean video shot on mobiles?

Quote:

Mucking about with a bit of Eastenders makes me think they use about a 270 degree shutter equivalent.


EastEnders is shot on HSC300s and PDW700s I think - both of which are standard Sony 2/3" cameras (the HSC300 can't shoot 25p - so EE won't be going 25p any time soon) I doubt they put any additional shutter in - so I'd expect them to be running close to 360 degree shutter (i.e. 1/50th second exposure for every frame that produces individual fields) That is effectively how tubed cameras worked (though I guess vertical blanking reduced the exposure period a small amount), and I guess standard CCD broadcast cameras emulate that to a degree (albeit without the tube equivalent of rolling shutter)
noggin12,117 posts since 26 Jun 2001
Though at least if you shot 1080p50 you could say 'it was shot progressive'...


Surely they could make that claim if it was shot in UHD as well? As there's no interlacing there at all.


Yes - 2160/50p and 2160/59.94p (as well as the 2x frame rate variants) can be described as 'shot progressive' - just as a lot of ABC/Fox/ESPN 720/59.94p stuff can be in the US...
davidhorman1,589 posts since 8 Mar 2005
Channel Channel Islands
it will probably just be dismissed out of hand as not "looking like a film should look like" (plenty of which came before they had even seen a frame of it).


It also doesn't help that you get eejits on YouTube uploading "60fps" versions of trailers and movie clips (including The Hobbit ) which are just the 24p trailer/clip interpolated up, and which resultingly look awful.
noggin12,117 posts since 26 Jun 2001
it will probably just be dismissed out of hand as not "looking like a film should look like" (plenty of which came before they had even seen a frame of it).


It also doesn't help that you get eejits on YouTube uploading "60fps" versions of trailers and movie clips (including The Hobbit ) which are just the 24p trailer/clip interpolated up, and which resultingly look awful.


To be honest, I don't think the attitudes of drama producers are massively influenced by YouTube interpolated promos. It's more a case that they see low-budget episodic drama like EastEnders, Corrie etc., where 4 shows are made a week, using 3 chip 2/3" cameras at 50i, and assume 50Hz=those production values.

Reality is that if you shoot a drama using an Alexa at 50p with the same care you would at 25p you end up with a different kind of 50Hz result. That said, it is very difficult for people to get round some prejudices. The Hobbit demonstrated that.
james-20011,593 posts since 13 Sep 2015
Central (East) East Midlands Today
When Emmerdale had their "car crash" week recently they used some different techniques that made the picture look really different- and really impressive. A shame they didn't stick with it afterwards- the sort of visual style you'd expect from big budget dramas, albeit still 50i. Really would be good to see more dramas that do look like that. The immediacy of video, with more high quality visual production techniques- something you never usually see.

Though I was in the US last week and caught some of The Young and The Restless and The Bold And The Beautiful, and it is fair to say our soaps are big budget productions in comparison to them!