noggin's posts, page 89

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NG
noggin Founding member

TV Licence Fee Decision


The BBC still has no role in covering the proceedings, that's now done by a company called Bowtie TV


Yes - and Bowtie is now part of the large global NEP group.
NG
noggin Founding member

Will BBC World News become available in UK?

ALV posted:
I'm not sure if the core feed is available on satellite or it's only available to the BBC privately.


What actually is the ‘core feed’?
Given that the gallery doesn’t play out their ads or break fillers? My understanding was that Red Bee play out each of the feeds for different regions, adding the weather, ads and trailers with regional specific timings.


Yes - I'm not aware that a 'core' feed free of advertising is created by Red Bee, who handle the channel Playout, as I don't believe that feed serves a purpose (so would be a waste of money to create?) (I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I'm not aware of it)

During News Channel/World News simulcast production (Outside Source, Beyond 100 Days etc.) when the originating gallery is on-air continuously on the BBC News Channel, then the originating gallery is usually responsible for sustaining the News Channel when Red Bee have left for commercial breaks etc. However this doesn't happen for programmes that are only being carried on BBC World News and don't have a need to sustain on the News Channel.
NG
noggin Founding member

TV Licence Fee Decision

Riaz posted:
BBC News, BBC Four, CBeebies and CBBC should really be gone by now.


Should the BBC give up on children's programmes? It's well known that kids don't watch broadcast TV as much as they used to but if CBeebies and CBBC are axed then it's more than two nails in the coffin for broadcast TV and kids. The next generation of kids brought up on tablets and YouTube, due to a shortage of appealing programmes on the terrestrial TV channels, will probably not bother much with broadcast TV when they get older. This will ultimately drive nails into the coffin for the entire BBC!


I'm not saying they should give them up. I'm saying they can't afford two children's channels.

They could probably get away with moving them online like BBC Three


How would that help?

The cost in running channels is commissioning and acquiring the content to go on them.

BBC Three moving online didn't make it massively cheaper, reducing the amount of content it commissioned or bought for the channeldid... The move online was an inevitable result of slashing BBC Three's commissioning budget, and reducing it's acquisition budget to almost zero, to a level where a linear channel would have literally just been days and days worth of repeats of the same few shows.
NG
noggin Founding member

NBC News, MSNBC, CNBC, NBC affiliates and TODAY

From what I’ve heard here Sky Central (or whatever the campus is called) is a bit out of the way from a more central location at Grays Inn Road.


Yes - Sky is based in Osterley/Isleworth, which is quite a lot further out than BBC TV Centre is, and much, much further out than ITN and BBC New Broadcasting House. It's not got great public transport connections, nor is it that quick to get to by car from Central London.

For comparison - the distance from Parliament, by road, to the following is :

BBC NBH 2 miles
ITN Grays Inn Road 3 miles
BBC TVC 6 miles
Sky Isleworth 11 miles

And though this is an artificial comparison as there are studios at Millbank very close to Parliament - it does give you a sense of how close the various operations are to the middle of London.
NG
noggin Founding member

HD remastering 4:3 programmes


Unlike the SD video stuff, even in SD PAL these looked a lot better as the film didn't have to be standards converted, just 4% PAL sped-up. They can also be retransferred in HD and look great.


So would they edit on film and then telecine it twice, or was this late enough on to be offline edited? Presumably the examples you gave weren't quite advanced enough to be scanned then online edited.


In the 70s and up until the late 80s the production process was 'all film' - with the series shot and edited on film, and film optical titles etc. Effectively the production process was identical to movies. 625/50 broadcasters either received a film copy to telecine themselves, or a 625/50 telecine made in the US on videotape.

I think until the mid-late 80s they'd actually distrubute film shot & edited shows as film prints, not videotapes, so there was no telecine involved until it was broadcast.

I have read when Dallas switched from being edited/distributed on film to video, the difference in picture quality got noticed to the point it was mentioned on points of view. I presume in the US it looked no different to how it did before, but we would have had the lower resolution of NTSC and standards conversion with 80s technology thrown in the mix that wasn't there before.


Yes - the Dallas switch from 'all film' to 'shoot film, edit tape' meant no major quality loss in the US (you had just moved where the 480/60 (*) telecine and 3:2 pulldown took place) but caused huge issues in 625/50 territories where 4-field/4-line adaptive standards conversion was the norm, which did a lousy job with 3:2 content (they weren't grade at 60Hz native stuff, but the 3:2 cadence made them a lot, lot worse). The picture quality made Points of View with people complaining. ISTR that a number of techniques were introduced by the industry to mitigate this.

1. 3:2 flagging in post. This allowed the duplicate fields to be discarded as they were flagged by the post production process, and a 480i 2:2 48Hz signal created that could be scaled to 576i 2:2 48Hz and recorded as 'Slow PAL' When this was replayed at 50Hz you got a regular PAL signal. (I think Laser Pacific or similar - a major post house in the US - introduced this)

2. DEFT 3:2 pulldown detection and removal. This was a technique created by Snell & Wilcox (who merged with Quantel to become SAM and who were recently bought by Grass Valley). DEFT = Digital Electronic Film Transfer. This system used image analysis to detect the repeated 3:2 field, remove it, scale the result and create a similar 576i 2:2 48Hz Slow PAL output that could be recorded on a Slow PAL compatible VTR for later replay at 576i 50Hz on regular VTRs.

1. and 2. both added a 480 line footprint to the production master, and so compromised quality for 625/50 territories, but were the only real options if you were cutting on linear tape, or had a tape master only. As composite tape was still in widespread use you also often had the NTSC subcarrier quality drop to also cope with (as this reduced chroma bandwidth compare to PAL)

3. Quantel's Editbox solution. This required that rushes were telecined at 576i 2:2 50Hz (i.e. a regular 625/50 territory TK) - but with no audio correction. The Editbox then treated these as if they were 576i 2:2 48Hz internally. You edited in the 24fps domain non-linearly (Editbox was an on-line quality non-linear editor) and then could play out 576i 2:2 50Hz regular speed 'PAL" masters for 625/50 territories, or get Editbox to playout at 480i 3:2 60Hz (i.e. scale 576i to 480i and add a 3:2 cadence) for 'NTSC" masters for 525/60 territories. As Editbox was digital component you could deliver on a digital component format too - and neither master was compromised. I believe later series of The X Files may have used this workflow or a similar one to deliver 480i 16:9 masters to Fox.(**)

(*) Or more accurately 59.94Hz and 23.976fps.
(**) Fox launched their 'HD' services on OTA digital in the US as 480p broadcasts - but all their network distribution was 480i based with the affiliates doing a deinterlace to 480p prior to MPEG2 encoding.
NG
noggin Founding member

HD remastering 4:3 programmes

Home Improvement being a show that can't be converted to HD due to being shot on video. Common with US sitcoms in the 70s and 80s (maybe even the majority at one point), but for whatever reason died out during the 90s and was pretty much extinct by the 00s.


Yes - lower budget US sit coms were shot multicamera NTSC SD video to tape - Kate and Allie, Family Ties, Diff'rent Strokes are three that stick in my mind. Tubed cameras, NTSC colo(u)r, nasty 80s standards conversions etc...

Higher budget sitcoms like Cheers were shot multicamera film (often 35mm) - an approach also used for Friends, Frasier etc. (This still uses a multicamera shooting style - which avoids the multiple takes required for single-camera 'movie-sty'e film production and allows for shooting in front of a studio audience sensibly, and getting a 'flow' to a scene)

Unlike the SD video stuff, even in SD PAL these looked a lot better as the film didn't have to be standards converted, just 4% PAL sped-up. They can also be retransferred in HD and look great.

Multicamera film was never really used in the UK (it's very expensive) - though it was trialled in the 60s as a way of shooting in an internationally compatible way (as 50Hz region 25fps film can be run at 24fps film in 60Hz regions without standards conversion)

I suspect any relatively recent multicamera sitcoms in the US will be acquired electronically though - either on 'video' cameras (as UK HD Sitcoms) or more 'e-cinema' cameras (like Alexa/Amira, Red, F65 etc.)
Last edited by noggin on 11 June 2019 1:25am
NG
noggin Founding member

YouTube Gold

I've done the Betcam/Betamax thing before I believe. Sometimes I never learn.

I presume then somebody at ITV could have digitised the 1" tapes of Hardwicke (or at least copied them to something more modern, D2 or something?), as looking at pictures of the 1" tapes they look like hulking great things that take up a shed load of room.


Ha ha! You should see 2" tapes...

But yes - the original masters may well have been transferred to a new format.

I don't know about ITV but the BBC did the following (approx) :

2" open reel dubbed to D3 Digital Composite cassette (D3 is a 1/2" composite format, D2 was a 3/4" composite format)
1" open reel dubbed to D3 Digital Composite initially - but then...
1" and D3 dubbed to DigiBeta (a 1/2" component format) (via Transform PAL decoders that are reversible) and uncompressed LTO data tape

The LTO data tape is now being ingested as IMX50 MPEG2 into the BBC Digital Archive.

So for 2" and some 1" there will be a D3 (now increasingly difficult to play), and in many cases also a DigiBeta (still easy to play) and an LTO data tape, which can be automatically migrated to new data standards, and in some cases also an online IMX50 copy in the Digital Archive.
NG
noggin Founding member

YouTube Gold


VHS in my experience was never very good at the audio side of things and I would hope the (presumably) Betamax masters sitting on a shelf somewhere at Leeds are better quality both audio and visual wise, even if all they are good for as far as ITV are concerned gathering dust.


In 1987 pretty much all network productions would have mastered to 1" C-Format in the UK.

Betacam (I assume you meant rather than Betamax - which was a VHS-quality consumer format) was not accepted by either the BBC or ITV for network production (though it was occasionally used for acquisition)

It wasn't until Betacam SP that the format saw widespread adoption (though technically it didn't quite meet IBA specs ISTR), but even then shows shot on BetaSP were usually mastered to 1" (later D2 or D3) outside of lower budget stuff (like News)
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Scotland | News at Nine


How about instead of people, various images of locations across Scotland? I think that might be better.

That's very dull and generic.

I don't see the problem with the montage of faces, it might look a bit odd because it's original. But it is arguably more representative of what news is about, or at least presumably what the editorial direction of their news bulletin is.... human interest.


I think NRK's titles do a nice job with 'real people and places' - a bit clichéd perhaps - but nice to see something that isn't maps, globes, streams of 'information' etc.

https://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen is a good example (Plus I love their music by Röyksopp)
NG
noggin Founding member

63 Up



It looked as if some the old 70s/80s footage had been re-TK'd into native HD ?

Or did I dream the whole programme !?


Yes - the 16mm colour film had clearly been retransferred in higher quality (HD or better). There was one series that looked liked it may have been shot with a dodgy SD 25p video 'film effect' that didn't hold up compared to the recent HD stuff and the retransferred film stuff.
NG
noggin Founding member

Good Morning Britain

Piers Morgan tweeted earlier that Good Morning Britain got 24.1% viewing share yesterday for the Trump interview - "fourth highest share ever". He didn't refer to the actual rating, though.

Presumably the very moving BBC Breakfast D-Day special from Portsmouth was second place then?


Ha ha ha ha !

If GMB beat Breakfast that would have made huge broadcast headlines across the industry.

On Wednesday Breakfast got 1.4m/40.2% share, GMB got 0.8m/24.1% share.

Piers is trumpeting GMB's 'highest ever shares' - but never putting them in the context that they are still a long way behind Breakfast's... (Well - it leaves Dan Walker something to do I guess)
NG
noggin Founding member

AppleTV 4K and Apple Video Services.

AppleTV+ will support 4K HDR playback with HDR10 and Dolby Vision & Dolby Atmos sound.


So same as Amazon Prime and Netflix then. Anything less than HDR10 and/or Dolby Vision, and anything less than Dolby Atmos sound, would leave Apple TV+ as 'second rate' in comparison.

Bit like SkyQ all nice looking but lacks HDR, HLG


Yep - tvOS has framework support for all the three main flavours of HDR out in the wild : HDR10, Dolby Vision and HLG.

I'm not aware of any UK Apple TV app that uses HLG at the moment. (I think there is limited MPEG-DASH support in tvOS - which may be why iPlayer doesn't support UHD HLG iPlayer?)
Last edited by noggin on 5 June 2019 1:31pm