noggin's posts, page 86

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NG
noggin Founding member

Channel Television during the 1979 ITV Strike


And when Radio 4 announcers did the night shift, there was a (supposedly haunted) room at the Langham Hotel available for them to sleep between the midnight and 6am bulletins.


Although presumably that was in the era when The Langham was a BBC building and not a hotel?
NG
noggin Founding member

Talking Telephone Numbers

I guess that is analagous to making physical cuts to tapes to do quick turnaround edits when there isn't time to dub off the bits you want to include.

Yes - though physical tape editing stopped being possible (at a broadcast level) when 2" Quad stopped being used. Think the last razor blade edit was for a Match of the Day cut down in the 80s.

You couldn't cut 1" C-format or B-format physically as the helical tracks made it effectively impossible.

Quote:

Like the (frankly scary) stories of VT editors of old editing the second half highlights of an evening football match while Match of the Day is playing out the first half


Yes - that's not unusual though - editing across multiple suites, and cross rolling between them, wasn't that unusual, with one edit still cutting whilst the other was on-air.

If you want scary - tape delaying events before servers was pretty hairy, particularly if the delay was quite short. (You had to be hot on how long 1" machines or D3 decks took to rewind...)
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NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Breakfast - 2018 Refresh

AlexS posted:

I would echo this.

That initial design is infinitely better than what we ended up with. Clueless.

I disagree. Those titles would fit better with a programme such as the briefing which focusses on a global agenda rather than Breakfast which on the whole has a more domestic focus.


But it's not as if the globe symbol is a completely alien concept as far as BBC Breakfast title sequences over the years is concerned (e.g. see Breakfast News between 1989-1993, arguably one of the best BBC Breakfast title sequences they've ever had and the virtual reality globe / BBC crest sequence of 1993-1997). And it is suitably bathed in a morning glow. It's completely appropriate.

And overall this initial idea is a lot more dynamic, visually and aesthetically pleasing as a title sequence than what we currently have, which are essentially some stings. As I've said before, they need to make the titles for the 1, 6 and 10 punchier: there was little wrong with the length of Breakfast's TOTH sequences pre-drone stings.

It also complements the set, which still -bizarrely and lazily - retains elements of the disco ball titles.


Though equally valid to remind people that the globe-based 'hard news' Breakfast News era is not seen as a hugely successful one - as it was seen as cold, distancing and inappropriate for a warmer morning show (particularly in the blue cut glass era), and not just because of its colour scheme. (The music was often thought to be pompous and bombastic too - though I know people love it)

That's one reason why that look was ditched earlier than the rest of BBC News output when they moved to TC7 from N2.
NG
noggin Founding member

Talking Telephone Numbers

Quantel's system (now GVG via SAM) has something called 'Frame Magic' (I think) that lets you play frames in any order, as it has a high enough bandwidth system to allow a cut-only EDL to be played live. It allows you to TX an edit without rendering the entire clip, but mixes/wipes/DVEs/Blurs etc. and audio mixes are rendered (effectively creating new frames that are then referred to by Frame Magic) prior to this in the background I think. This means that it's perfectly possible to play out a clip straight after you've made the final edit.

EVS, in a way, goes a step better, in that it lets you start playing a clip list (which can contain mixes within it), whilst still adding stuff to the end or replacing shots that have yet to TX.
NG
noggin Founding member

AppleTV 4K and Apple Video Services.

Eastbourne is obviously 1080p25 on my Apple TV 4K (and reported as such by the Developer HUD) and is also 1080p25 on my nVidia Shield TV. Neither device is running at the 1080p50 I was seeing for Queens on my Apple TV 4K.

My guess is it depends how the Amazon streams are originated, and by whom.
NG
noggin Founding member

International News Presentation: Past and Present

Jon posted:
It’s like a good version of London Live’s set.


And a rare German set that isn't virtual! Wink


Well the main German TV News set for Tagesschau (the main bulletin on the main channel?) isn't virtual Smile It's very clever - but physical (or was last time I watched).
NG
noggin Founding member

AppleTV 4K and Apple Video Services.

1080p50 is very good indeed why isn’t broadcast tv 1080p50? I mean why is it 1080i25?


The 1080p50 being provided OTT by Amazon Prime is almost certainly a deinterlace from 1080i25 (which has the same motion as p50)

Broadcast outlets aimed at TVs use 1080i because TV has been interlaced since 1936 (the original 405line standard was 377i25) and either display it native interlaced (CRTs and early ALiS Plasmas) or deinterlace from i25 to p50.

Computers, tablets and phones don't always have decent deinterlacing built in (and it takes processing power to do it) so for OTT platforms a progressive format is always preferred. Until recently (iPlayer was the first UK platform to switch from p25 to p50 a couple of years ago) all OTT was p25. This is fine for drama and documentary (which is shot progressive at 25Hz), but terrible for sport and entertainment that is shot at 50Hz.

1080p50 is do-able as a native origination format - but is relatively rare - as there are no major linear broadcast outlets that take it. If an event is being shot primarily for streaming it can be shot 1080p50 (most modern cameras and infrastructure supports the 3G-SDI required for 1080p50 and 1080p59.94)

In Germany and the Netherlands their DVB-T2 platforms are using 1080p50 HEVC/h.265 encoded - but I believe a lot of this is 1080i25 deinterlaced to 1080p50. (HEVC isn't optimised for interlaced content in the same way that h.264 is)

To be honest - the quality difference between 1080i25 deinterlaced well and native 1080p50 is quite small - HDR and UHD make more of an impact (HDR particularly)

The key thing to always remember is that 1080i25 isn't 25 pictures per second. It's 50 - the same number of pictures per second as 1080p50. This is why 1080i25 and 1080p50 have the same fluid motion. The difference is that 1080p50 native has full vertical resolution irrespective of content (as it sends 50 1080 line pictures each second), whereas 1080i25 has reduced vertical motion on moving content, with only static content having the higher vertical resolution (as it sends 50 540 line pictures each second, but the two pairs of 540 line pictures that make up a frame are offset vertically with respect to each other). Motion blur on moving content is entirely normal - so people don't perceive it as a major quality issue. LOTS of people think 1080i25 has the same motion as 1080p25 because it has the same frame rate - ignoring what interlace is and how it works .
Last edited by noggin on 24 June 2019 4:24pm
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NG
noggin Founding member

AppleTV 4K and Apple Video Services.

Yes - Apple TV 4K Developer HUD shows 1920x1080 at 50Hz (i.e. 1080p50) with an average bitrate of around 11.4Mbs AVC (aka h.264) video and 128k AAC audio watching a replay. I guess it's deinterlaced from a 1080i25 feed. It's pretty much as good as watching a regular 1080i DVB linear channel (minus the 5.1 sound on some sport outlets) There are some compression artefacts - but they are relatively minor unless it ramps down to 1280x720 or 960x540.

Huge improvement over the p25 stuff that they used to use, and puts it massively ahead of NowTV. Fingers crossed this is the 'new normal' for Amazon sport coverage.
Last edited by noggin on 23 June 2019 11:20pm
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NG
noggin Founding member

Will BBC World News become available in UK?


Except the BBC does broadcast to Ireland doesn't it? Wasn't that an outcome of the Good Friday Agreement.


I believe there is a provision in the GFA to allow transmissions from both broadcasters on each others terrestrial networks

Before DSO that was only taken up by TG4 on one low power transmitter near Belfast . RTE 1 & 2 are now broadcast as well but older boxes because of the codec used cannot see them

It's never been taken up by the BBC or anyone else for ROI transmitters

When they were testing Digital TV in 2006/7 they did carry BBC3 and BBC4 on their scrambled test service

ETA A few years ago when there appeared to be some movement on the situation there was opposition from the main cable company and IIRC Sky


Technically I think it's not just the codec (h.264) but the modulation scheme (DVB-T2) that is the issue that stops SD Freeview TVs receiving the Republic services broadcasts in the North. They are broadcast on a DVB-T2 mux in h.264 (like all Freeview services - SD or HD - carried on PSB3, COM7 and COM8 DVB-T2 'Freeview HD' in the UK)
NG
noggin Founding member

How strange (odd choices in news programmes)

Thank you. I was confused when you were saying this and press releases said that.


I've spoken to some people who know - and NRK did roll out Mosart to their regions as per the press release. They have since replaced it entirely with their own open source solution, developed by Superfly, which is called Sofie.

I guess Mosart has some hefty annual support costs - or wasn't doing what they wanted it to.


That must of been an expensive to roll out and then remove. Does Mosart use the standard Viz engine boxes? I understand they use off the shelf commercial PCs and graphics cards. If they purchased the boxes could they be repurposed for this use?


I think Mosart will drive VizRT graphics engines, but it will also drive <sharp intake of breath> CasparCG too (even though Viz tried to sue SVT over that particular development) TV2 in Copenhagen have Mosart driving Caspar for their key+fill titles Playout.

However 5 years is a normal 'capital life pay off' for a piece of broadcast hardware, and 3-4 years isn't unusual in IT hardware terms. Sure most broadcasters will sweat their assets for far longer than this (BBC English regions are experts at this - with some regions having kit that is 20+ years old, and many IT operations are upgrading old laptops with SSDs and more RAM rather than replacing them now) and as we move to more COTS-based systems, the cost is usually not in hardware but in licensing the software that runs on them, and the support costs. It's easy for the hardware costs to be less than 10% of the actual costs of equipment use these days.

Looking at CG/gfx platforms rather than automation per se, a VizRT graphics engine may have a hardware cost of £5k or less, but a licence cost of £40k or more, plus an annual support fee that is far from insignificant. If this licence cost is paid annually rather than as a one-off, or you have a significant SLA for support, then the cost of the actual hardware ceases to be the barrier.

CasparCG has a similar order-of-magnitude hardware cost as a VizRT box (though it uses lower cost SDI I/O cards) but your licensing costs are zero (as the software is free, as in beer), and your support costs are what you need to support in-house, or with an SLA for a smaller third party that will support it for you. (The latter is the biggest barrier to wide spread adoption of lower cost, open source solutions in broadcast)
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NG
noggin Founding member

Saturday morning TV memories


That’s my understanding. The use of 8 or 0 was because that preset loosened up the flywheel sync circuitry, which meant a more stable picture when playing back a tape. Of course you could still use the preset for a proper broadcast channel, but I seem to recall you’d get a bit of jitter doing so


I had totally forgotten about that - but yes, you're right. Some TVs dedicated a specific 'channel' number for VCRs for that reason.
NG
noggin Founding member

TV Breakdown Appreciation Thread

Yes - quite a number of issues in ZDF behaving in this manner, particularly if they took the Swiss commentary (as they won't have a talent rights contract for the commentator(s)

However in situations like this the mantra is often "Better to ask forgiveness than permission"...