noggin's posts, page 58

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NG
noggin Founding member

NOW TV

London Lite posted:
Finally got round to watching some football on Now TV this afternoon. First time I've watched a match of any form of IPTV that looks as good as watching on linear tv.

Now (no pun intended) if they can increase the fps to 50 for all sports channels, NOW TV would be a credible alternative to spending a shed load on Sky or Virgin.


I wonder what bitrate they are using for 1080p50 streams. If they are h.264 I'd hope it was North of 10Mbs. iPlayer falls apart on some taxing stuff at 720p50 5.3Mbs, and has a lot less information to carry.

1080p50 = 104M/"pixels" per second source
720p50 = 46M/"pixels" per second source

It's not a linear relationship between pixels per second and bitrate - but it shows you the additional challenge.

"pixels" = 8-bit luminance sample sites (plus 1/4 of Cr and Cb chroma samples - as each Cr and Cb sample covers 4 luminance samples) (So for 4:2:0 8-bit h.264 you can think of the format as 12-bits per pixel. 4 x 8 bit Y samples and 1 x 8 bit Cr and 1 x 8 bit Cb per 2x2 sample grid)

Amazon Prime Video is using 11-12Mbs h.264 for their Tennis 1080p50 streaming according to my Apple TV 4K developer HUD. (128k AAC audio)
Last edited by noggin on 28 November 2019 12:47pm - 2 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member

North American Affilliates/Network Set Design

mici0123 posted:
noggin posted:
[
Germany and the Netherlands are using 1080p50 HEVC/h.265 over DVB-T2 terrestrially - though I suspect a lot of the content will be 1080p25 and 1080i25 to 1080p50 deinterlaces. (Germany have ditched SD interlaced entirely from their upgraded DVB-T2 platform - and introduced 540p50 to replace it, alongside 720p50 and 1080p50 modes in their standard. Though 1080i25 may also be supported - there's no real point in using it)


Before the regular service started there was a test broadcast in Berlin with DVB-T2 and HEVC where they also tested a 1080i broadcast.


Yep - 1080i is included in the German DVB-T2 set-top box/TV reference standard ISTR, 576i is not. (That's the equivalent of our D-book)

https://www.tv-plattform.de/images/stories/pdf/2015_%20minimum%20requirementst2-germany-v1.pdf

Section 5.1 appears to mandate support for :

1080i25, 1080p50, 720p50 and 540p50.

Quote:

Most TVs and set-top-boxes that did have a HEVC decoder couldn't display it, software like VLC thought it was 1920x540 and, as you suspected, at lower bitrates it performed pretty much like 1080p.


Ah - I guess those TVs weren't tested against the German reference standard, or were built prior to it being ratified? 1080i HEVC is part of the standard and was added prior to ratification. I've played it on a couple of platforms OK. Though it's a pretty pointless thing to do...

Quote:

(By the way no 720p broadcasts on DVB-T2 in Germany those are also upscaled to 1080p. ZDF already anounced they want to have native 1080p50 and HDR "some time next year).


Ah - I thought some of the Freenet encrypted stuff was 720p50. I know the shopping stuff is 540p50 (which is the replacement for 576i25)

Quote:

Interlaced was basically an afterthought in the development of HEVC and was only added in the later revisions.


Yes - it's implemented like the early h.264 interlaced support - which is separated fields (so it's treated as 1920x540p50 effectively in encoding terms) with each interlaced field compressed in intra-field mode only. h.264 added PAFF and MBAFF that allow two interlaced fields to be compressed in the frame domain (either across the whole frame - PAFF - or at a macroblock level - MBAFF) to increase encoder efficiency.

As a result h.265 is far poorer in compression terms with an interlaced source than a progressive source, and for interlaced content offers little advantage over h.264. However deinterlacing 1080i25 to 1080p50 and then compressing is a far better approach and delivers better encodes. Which is presumably what Germany is doing. Chatting to people at ZDF they are still running 1080i25 internally.

(Almost all broadcasters that until recently broadcast only in 720p50 operated internally at 1080i25 and cross-converted on playout. Very few originated anything in 720p50)
NG
noggin Founding member

Freeview channels thread

Markymark posted:
TheMike posted:
There was this yesterday, but only tells half the story


Yes, Quite, and Social Media posts are no use at all for folk that don't use Social Media, the best means of delivery are messages on the,... err..... telly itself ! Mad


Yep - quick mention on the BBC and ITV regional news in those areas that are going to experience the changes is by far the best route. Increasingly the BBC regional news at 1830 is the most watched slot of the day on BBC One.
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision Contests - Junior Eurovision 2019 - TVP - 24Nov19

DVB Cornwall posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Presumably countries with more than one official language can choose which they wish to sing that 75% in? So the Welsh entry could legitimately be in English if they so wished.


It’s the S4C nature of the channel that would preclude that not the EBU, it would defeat the objectives of the channel.


Though interestingly they do an English language commentary on Red Button (which I think they also do for the Royal Welsh Show coverage?)
NG
noggin Founding member

2019 General Christmas election.

Brekkie posted:
Do they have GL2 all year or just for Strictly?


All year I believe - shows other than Strictly have come from there.
NG
noggin Founding member

Top of the Pops

buster posted:
The start of the drum roll at the head of the titles is also slightly different - much firmer. I suspect they played their own to cover up any slight gap before the BBC1/NC1 feed with the actual drum roll kicked in?


If the show was live - then the recording in the archives may have been a PasB (programme as broadcast) made from the network feed - which could have a dissolve from the BBC One symbol into the titles, but equally it might have been a recording of studio output (which would be clean at either end).

However for recorded shows, the copy in the archives is going to be the copy used for transmission (they wouldn't have made a PasB of a delivered recorded show)
NG
noggin Founding member

Britbox UK - UK SVoD Platform.

DVB Cornwall posted:
We've been through this before, I don't.


OK - sorry I forgot.

Just subscribed to check - Eurosport Player on Apple TV 4K within their app is p25 visually and confirmed as 5.6Mbs average bitrate at 1920x1080p 25fps in the Apple TV Developer HUD.

I checked out the live Davis Cup tennis and swimming.

Do you have Frame Rate interpolation enabled on your TV (MotionFlow, Natural Motion etc.)? I don't see how what I'm seeing could be mistaken for 50fps?
Last edited by noggin on 25 November 2019 9:00am
NG
noggin Founding member

The RTE News Thread

JKDerry posted:

Does anyone know if RTE have used large London studios for previous general elections? Because I have it in the back of my memory that they used the former Match of the Day studio in Television Centre for the 2010 general election, right?


Yes - RTÉ used the BBC Sport studio at TVC, TC5, in the past I believe (as it had a standing set they could use) - though that wasn't a large studio. At Television Centre TC2, TC5 and TC7 were described as the small studios.

It was a lot larger than The One Show studio they used more recently though.
NG
noggin Founding member

Britbox UK - UK SVoD Platform.

DVB Cornwall posted:
The standalone app, purchased directly and exhibited on Apple TV.


Do you have a Mac you can install Xcode on? (If so you can enable the ATV developer HUD to confirm - as that will confirm frame rate of the stream being played).
NG
noggin Founding member

Britbox UK - UK SVoD Platform.

DVB Cornwall posted:
The native Eurosport Player is Damn good 25fps if it still is, I’m almost certain it’s now 50.


What platform?
NG
noggin Founding member

Top of the Pops

james-2001 posted:
I would have expected BBC4 to have been using the same master tapes as was used for the original broadcast, I'm suprised there's a difference, even one so minor.


All of the BBC Four repeats will have been through an edit prior to transmission. They have to be complied for content, photosensitivity etc. so a new edit is usually made.
NG
noggin Founding member

2019 General Christmas election.

Rkolsen posted:
I know there are strict regulations on Election Day but can broadcasters say its Election Day, get out and vote and show the party leaders voting themselves?


I think most UK broadcasters won't say 'get out and vote' but they can show polling stations, say that people and leaders are voting. Twitter turns into 'Dogs at polling stations' Smile