noggin's posts, page 311

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NG
noggin Founding member

Olympics 2016

Neil Jones posted:
noggin posted:
Neil Jones posted:

Also remember a lot of professional films are (or already have) been made at resolutions far far higher than any domestic equipment can cope with and they are effectively downsampled to DVD or Blu-Ray standard.


Also worth remembering that lots of movies aren't DI-ed at much over 2K (very similar to HD)... (And some movies DI-ed at higher resolutions no longer have those masters retained apparently - which I found difficult to believe...)


Click said studios were scanning the reels at 4k and 6k, and this was in 2008:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7525143.stm

Apparently this is so good that one can now see a rivet between the eyes of the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz (1939) which (it is said) nobody spotted for nearly 70 years until the film was restored. Of course whether native shooting in 4k/8k brings out any more detail than current HD does remains to be seen.


Yes - there have been some scans (particularly for restoration where you need to be able to match artefacts) at high resolution, but there were lots of discussions about studios using very high resolutions for intermediate work, but then down-scaling for final mastering (and in some cases effects shots), and I couldn't believe when I heard that in some cases the original highest resolution scans hadn't been retained. Have heard this from more than one person involved in the effects community - but it may be doing the rounds...
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC’s Parliament channel staff to strike

Steve in Pudsey posted:
They used to be employees of Granada when BBCP first launched.

I think the actual Paliament coverage is done by the house itself, as Host Broadcaster of sorts.

I believe BowTie television have (or had) the contract to produce the core coverage, which is available to all broadcasters.

Quote:

BBC Parliament dedicated staff probably mainly handle pres and filler content.


I believe the BBC Parliament team are also responsible for handling all on-screen graphics on BBC Parliament output - which is a little more than just a 'pres' role.
NG
noggin Founding member

Olympics 2016

Neil Jones posted:

Also remember a lot of professional films are (or already have) been made at resolutions far far higher than any domestic equipment can cope with and they are effectively downsampled to DVD or Blu-Ray standard.


Also worth remembering that lots of movies aren't DI-ed at much over 2K (very similar to HD)... (And some movies DI-ed at higher resolutions no longer have those masters retained apparently - which I found difficult to believe...)
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Red Button / MHEG Captures

Orry Verducci posted:
noggin posted:
Connected Red Button would need to be captured via an HDMI or Composite capture system from a set top box (and would be video capture - not the data)

MHEG-5 is reasonably easy to capture as it is just another PID in the DVB-T/T2 or S/S2 streams - like subtitles, audio, video etc. However there aren't many easy ways of displaying MHEG-5 on a PC (Windows Media Center has an MHEG5 decoder - not sure if you record in that domain you can access the MHEG5 services on recordings... Will check when I get a chance - have a dim memory that you can, as you can with DVB teletext on non-UK channels) There may also be an MHEG-5 decoder implemented in MythTV.

DVB Viewer has full support for both MHEG-5 and HbbTV, which makes capturing the Freeview and Freesat red button services as simple as loading them up and hitting the screen capture option. I've not yet tried Connected Red Button with it so I'm not sure how well that's supported, but the MHEG red button services all work perfectly. I believe it also works from a recorded transport stream, although again I've not tried it myself.


I should have remembered that. ISTR that it was an optional extra that required extra payment, so I've never added it to my install of DVB Viewer.
NG
noggin Founding member

The Sport Thread

Rkolsen posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
What is the point of having a main and reserve circuit from the OB if they both go through the same downlink facility?

Usually it isn't a problem, everything can be resilient and duplicated in case of an issue. The sky is one thing you can't have a reserve of.its more often an issue at the uplinked than the downlink due to the smaller dish used on a truck


For more important broadcasts there often will be a main and reserve from different sources, I suppose it's done according to how much it costs versus importance of the programme. I don't imagine Triathlon has a massive audience


Just throwing this out their but ESPN for their Sunday Night Baseball has three different back up paths. They have three in / three out 600 Mbps JPEG2000 fiber paths (I think it's through TheSwirch.tv), a secondary AT&T fiber path at 100Mbps and if crap really hits the fan they have a TVU bonded cellular unit.


Dual redundant JPEG2000 fibre (or similar contribution quality codec) via different routes is a normal approach in the UK too, though if redundancy can't be guaranteed end-to-end on the fibre route, you'll often find a satellite truck used for a secondary uplink (and in some cases it is there as a tertiary anyway)

For large, multi-site OBs, you will often find secondary backups direct to master control from contributing OBs are implemented, as well as the main, reserve (and second reserve) to master control from the main transmission co-ordination site. (Equivalent of a circuit from an OB going direct to the BBC as well as a circuit sent via the IBC for World Cup, Olympics etc.)

IP over public internet is also being used for resilience purposes, as well as being a standard replacement for ISDN for communications circuits (ComRex is close to universal for 4-wires in the UK)
NG
noggin Founding member

The Sport Thread

Steve in Pudsey posted:
What is the point of having a main and reserve circuit from the OB if they both go through the same downlink facility?

It's entirely possible to have redundant downlink facilities on a single site (different power, different paths out, different buildings even) - and with remote control it is possible to cope with evacuation etc. removing people from the site.

The same is true of uplinks. SIS Live have a number of dual-dish, dual-redundant uplinks with totally separate power and signal infrastructure allowing them to effectively be two trucks in one. (Though that doesn't cover you if the actual truck is destroyed...)
NG
noggin Founding member

Teletext data as .vtc files

Yes - if the .vtc files have ASCII-like text in them, chances are the non-text stuff is standard teletext control codes (just like the BBC Micro used to use in Mode 7) that controlled foreground and background colour, flashing, double height, contiguous or non-contiguous graphics etc.
NG
noggin Founding member

International News Presentation: Past and Present

elmarko posted:
They do love their stereo mic setups in France, don't they?


If you're referring to the presenter having two mics on - that almost certainly isn't stereo mining, and is instead two mics being used in mono. It is either to allow them to have a main and a spare (so you have a backup if one mic fails) or to allow the presenter to turn to people either side without going off mic (though you have to be very careful to avoid phasing issues)

Some main and spare mic setups will have two lapel mics on a single clip (so the main and spare mics are in the same place) - but should the mic clip fall off you've lost both mics in that configuration...
WW Update and London Lite gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Red Button / MHEG Captures

CrispyPotato posted:
Just wondering - is anyone capturing BBC Red Button, Connected Red Button or other MHEG service pages in the same way as people (deliberately or accidentally) captured Oracle / Teletext / Ceefax pages? I know there's probably no easy way to do it, but it would be of interest for historical purposes.


Connected Red Button would need to be captured via an HDMI or Composite capture system from a set top box (and would be video capture - not the data)

MHEG-5 is reasonably easy to capture as it is just another PID in the DVB-T/T2 or S/S2 streams - like subtitles, audio, video etc. However there aren't many easy ways of displaying MHEG-5 on a PC (Windows Media Center has an MHEG5 decoder - not sure if you record in that domain you can access the MHEG5 services on recordings... Will check when I get a chance - have a dim memory that you can, as you can with DVB teletext on non-UK channels) There may also be an MHEG-5 decoder implemented in MythTV.

*** Edit : Just had a look at MythTVs sources on github and they do have some MHEG5 code here : https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/tree/4d24d54ef43164f1325fcbe914450b7dea37e28f/mythtv/libs/libmythfreemheg ***
NG
noggin Founding member

Local TV

JAS84 posted:
And some of those colours aren't possible on Teletext.


Depends what level of Teletext you have implemented. Level 2 and 2.5 allowed user defined colours - and has been broadcast in the past. (The BBC flirted with it but didn't ever really deploy it) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext#Levels

It may still be being used by some European broadcasters on DVB services : http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/Teletext/#Level_2-5

Though if you are trying to emulate Level 1 (as widely used in the UK for CEEFAX) then you are right - the colours are wrong, and the typeface isn't one of the generally and widely used typefaces (such as the lovely BBC Mode 7 / SAA5050 output font which had lovely 'character rounding' to stop the characters looking blocky)
Last edited by noggin on 13 June 2016 9:46am
NG
noggin Founding member

SD Picture Quality

Inspector Sands posted:
VMPhil posted:
I must admit I can't believe the Sky boxes still have no option for displaying 4:3 content in its proper aspect ratio. This is a standard feature on Virgin's cable boxes (both legacy and TiVo).

Part of the issue I suspect is that Sky have always done 4:3 differently. For a mixed ratio channel like the BBC's, DTT has always been a 16:9 raster with 4:3 programmes pillarboxed. The feed to satellite is ARCd so that 4:3 programmes are 4:3 raster.

This means a triple conversion if the viewer at home pillarboxes it - first it had pillars added when the 4:3 programme left the tape, then they were taken off when it leaves playout, then they're added again at home.


Yes - though there is no major quality difference between upscaling and stretching a 4:3 SD show to 1920x1080 or 1440x1080 and adding pilarbox bars - other than a bit of rounding and filtering.

Most other DVB-S2 receivers available do it (and it's normal in other regions even if they do 4:3 content as 4:3 full-width) - it's just Sky who stubbornly refuse to provide 'right shape pictures' as an option at 1080i...

(They also still appear to refuse to deliver 576/50i over HDMI - even though that was added to the spec long ago - albeit after the initial release of HDMI 1.0 ISTR)
NG
noggin Founding member

SNG, Mobile Uplinks, Bonded Cellular and Downlinks

elmarko posted:
Define "awkward feeds" - not sure what you mean and why the would need UKI-1 specifically. Can you elaborate?


The larger your dish, the higher your gain (assuming a decent quality) so UKI-1 will deliver reception of signals that smaller dishes will not receive as reliably, giving you more protection against heavy rain, allow more marginal paths to be used more reliably etc. The same is also true of uplinks. (UKI-1 is often used for both requirements)

UKI-1 is larger than the dishes mounted on top of SNG trucks - it's a separate large dish on a trailer. It can allow you to use paths that would otherwise need a large fixed downlink/uplink dish or a double-hop (adding cost and delay)