NG
noggin
Founding member
NG
News programmes need more wind chimes nowadays... Gotta love the French, ploughing their own furrow in presentation terms...
noggin
Founding member
French TV
Here's ORTF's 1 p.m. news (First Network) from 1972 with a long report on the launch of ORTF's Third Network (beginning at the 19:25 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF1Lvdaxkyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF1Lvdaxkyw
News programmes need more wind chimes nowadays... Gotta love the French, ploughing their own furrow in presentation terms...
NG
No - Victoria Derbyshire's husband, Mark Sandell, was the Editor of World Have Your Say and the subject of a separate disciplinary investigation I believe (AIUI he was dismissed, appealed and was reinstated - but has since left the corporation). He was previously married to Fi Glover.
noggin
Founding member
BBC News: Presenters & Rotas
I think you're thinking of Rod McKenzie on the last part, I don't know about any link to Victoria Derbyshire. I was referring to Louisa Compton.
No - Victoria Derbyshire's husband, Mark Sandell, was the Editor of World Have Your Say and the subject of a separate disciplinary investigation I believe (AIUI he was dismissed, appealed and was reinstated - but has since left the corporation). He was previously married to Fi Glover.
Last edited by noggin on 3 July 2016 7:01pm
NG
Don't think they are running them from one system are they ? They are co-siting the equipment, but not integrating it, though in some cases multiple VMs will be running on the same server.
noggin
Founding member
Historical broadcast audio equipment
I guess VCS may be more suited to running 40 stations from one system than Radioman?
Don't think they are running them from one system are they ? They are co-siting the equipment, but not integrating it, though in some cases multiple VMs will be running on the same server.
NG
Yep. AIUI ViLor saves so much money that they can use some of the savings to deploy VCS (which is a little more expensive) as a result. ViLor does seem to be delivering pretty effectively by all accounts.
noggin
Founding member
Historical broadcast audio equipment
I think you're right about ViLoR sites being VCS.
Radio Manchester are VCS too, it was cheaper to give them the same kit as 5Live when they moved to Salford. Radio London may be in the same position at NBH.
Radio Manchester are VCS too, it was cheaper to give them the same kit as 5Live when they moved to Salford. Radio London may be in the same position at NBH.
Yep. AIUI ViLor saves so much money that they can use some of the savings to deploy VCS (which is a little more expensive) as a result. ViLor does seem to be delivering pretty effectively by all accounts.
NG
Then various editing and automation systems arrived (Cool Edit Pro for editing, RadioMan or Dalet for playout etc.) in the mid-to-late 90s - and they revolutionised national and local radio production. AIUI VCS Dira is now the main platform used by Network radio - not sure about local radio, suspect they may still be on Radioman - though ViLor sites may be different.
noggin
Founding member
Historical broadcast audio equipment
From the beginning of BBC Local Radio until the mid-90s it was routine for journalists to take out a 1/4" recorder (usually a Uher or similar), bring back their audio and then physically cut it using razor blades. Even if you had moved to location recording on cassette (the Sony Pro Walkman WMD6C was an acceptable cassette recorder, and there were some Tascams as well) you'd have to dub to 1/4" to edit - there simply wasn't another option.Then various editing and automation systems arrived (Cool Edit Pro for editing, RadioMan or Dalet for playout etc.) in the mid-to-late 90s - and they revolutionised national and local radio production. AIUI VCS Dira is now the main platform used by Network radio - not sure about local radio, suspect they may still be on Radioman - though ViLor sites may be different.
NG
1/4 inch 'Carts' were also used for spot music playback - not just 1/4 inch reel-to-reel - in the days before CD/MD and HDD playback became commonplace.
Does anyone know how long gramophones lasted for before being replaced by tape? For instance, how long did the BBC and ITN use them for in TV production? Had they been phased out by the 1970s or earlier?
I appreciate this sort of question might be too specialist, but thought it was worth a punt.
They were gone by the early 90s - when 1/4" was commonplace, and MDs beginning to appear. (CDs were less widespread because of the lack of recording functionality)
noggin
Founding member
Historical broadcast audio equipment
This is rather a niche question for discussion, but thought I might ask it here given the huge amount of combined knowledge on TV Forum!
I think I'm right in saying that originally, TV control rooms used gramophones to play out theme music etc, hence the term "grams operator". At some point, 1/4 inch reel-to-reel tape became commonplace until the 1990s when CD, MD and HDD-based systems became available.
I think I'm right in saying that originally, TV control rooms used gramophones to play out theme music etc, hence the term "grams operator". At some point, 1/4 inch reel-to-reel tape became commonplace until the 1990s when CD, MD and HDD-based systems became available.
1/4 inch 'Carts' were also used for spot music playback - not just 1/4 inch reel-to-reel - in the days before CD/MD and HDD playback became commonplace.
Quote:
Does anyone know how long gramophones lasted for before being replaced by tape? For instance, how long did the BBC and ITN use them for in TV production? Had they been phased out by the 1970s or earlier?
I appreciate this sort of question might be too specialist, but thought it was worth a punt.
They were gone by the early 90s - when 1/4" was commonplace, and MDs beginning to appear. (CDs were less widespread because of the lack of recording functionality)
NG
However the EPG for Freeview HD channels is compressed using a proprietary Huffman table (not encrypted) and these tables are, I believe, restricted to those manufacturers who enforce the Freeview HD copy protection requirements (encrypting recordings, making them Copy Once or Copy Never etc.) Whist these Huffman tables are widely circulated in Open Source software - they are probably still commercially licensed - so couldn't be incorporated in commercial software like EyeTV. That may be why there is some lack of clarity on the situation.
EyeTV definitely works OK with H264 video - I've used it to watch DVB-T H264 HD and SD content in Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc.
noggin
Founding member
DVB-T2 USB Dongles for Mac
Freeview HD is DVB-T2 with H264 compression and AAC audio. Freeview is DVB-T with MPEG2 compression and MP2 audio.However the EPG for Freeview HD channels is compressed using a proprietary Huffman table (not encrypted) and these tables are, I believe, restricted to those manufacturers who enforce the Freeview HD copy protection requirements (encrypting recordings, making them Copy Once or Copy Never etc.) Whist these Huffman tables are widely circulated in Open Source software - they are probably still commercially licensed - so couldn't be incorporated in commercial software like EyeTV. That may be why there is some lack of clarity on the situation.
EyeTV definitely works OK with H264 video - I've used it to watch DVB-T H264 HD and SD content in Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc.
NG
Messed up (from what it should be - ie. from what it was in original broadcast) in that it looks all 25p (rather than part 25p/50i like 2010. ie. it doesn't change part way like in that year). They probably did it (film-effected the 2016 DVDs) intentionally for some reason though, despite the broadcast being 50i and despite the fact that all TVs & players can de-interlace (there was also some picture breakup on semi 2).
Last time it was caused by a mastering cock-up I believe. Wouldn't be surprised if that had happened again.
Chances are they were given an HD 1080i master to produce the DVD from, which will have required down-scaling to 576i. I suspect this will have been done in software - and there's every chance they messed up in the 1080i25 to 576i25 conversion and went to 576p25 instead.
Ridiculous thing to do intentionally...
noggin
Founding member
Eurovision 2016
So have they messed up the mastering of this year's DVDs then? 25p rather than 50i? (In 2010 it was obviously a cock-up...)
Messed up (from what it should be - ie. from what it was in original broadcast) in that it looks all 25p (rather than part 25p/50i like 2010. ie. it doesn't change part way like in that year). They probably did it (film-effected the 2016 DVDs) intentionally for some reason though, despite the broadcast being 50i and despite the fact that all TVs & players can de-interlace (there was also some picture breakup on semi 2).
Last time it was caused by a mastering cock-up I believe. Wouldn't be surprised if that had happened again.
Chances are they were given an HD 1080i master to produce the DVD from, which will have required down-scaling to 576i. I suspect this will have been done in software - and there's every chance they messed up in the 1080i25 to 576i25 conversion and went to 576p25 instead.
Ridiculous thing to do intentionally...
NG
I thought Neighbours had gone all-filmic. Perhaps the difference is down to lighting and editing - on set they might stick with multi-camera, whereas outside they might be more likely to go to single-camera.
Neighbours switched from 50i to 25p a long time ago - probably when it went HD. (After it left the BBC) They may have changed the lighting look - or moved from multi camera 25p to single camera 25p interiors I guess?
I seem to recall The Bill going single-camera before they went filmic, which showed on screen and gave it a different feel to a multi-camera soap like Eastenders .
The Bill was single camera for a long time before it went 25p. In fact I'm not sure the series was ever multi-camera (the pilot may have been). They had a single camera 4:3 set-up with a trolley carrying the VTR (MII at one point?) and racking position ISTR.
noggin
Founding member
Casualty
Quote:
Similarly I've noticed if I watch Neighbours via My5 (or certain other online sources) the scenes in the studio look less filmic and more studio/video like, but outdoor scenes still look filmic.
I thought Neighbours had gone all-filmic. Perhaps the difference is down to lighting and editing - on set they might stick with multi-camera, whereas outside they might be more likely to go to single-camera.
Neighbours switched from 50i to 25p a long time ago - probably when it went HD. (After it left the BBC) They may have changed the lighting look - or moved from multi camera 25p to single camera 25p interiors I guess?
Quote:
I seem to recall The Bill going single-camera before they went filmic, which showed on screen and gave it a different feel to a multi-camera soap like Eastenders .
The Bill was single camera for a long time before it went 25p. In fact I'm not sure the series was ever multi-camera (the pilot may have been). They had a single camera 4:3 set-up with a trolley carrying the VTR (MII at one point?) and racking position ISTR.
NG
Do they just chuck everything on at 720/50p, even if it doesn't need it? I suppose the repeated frames compress well, but I can imagine it might confuse some playback systems, especially if they're trying to do something motion related.
I expect so - all BBC shows are delivered 50i and if they have rolls or crawls on the credits they should be 50i. So even if the content is shot 25p, there could be a benefit for the credits in running 50p...
noggin
Founding member
Casualty
Last weeks episode was really noticeable for how bad it looked on iPlayer. I was watching via the iPlayer Kodi add-on. Now Kodi unlike the current official iPlayer app can be forced to the highest settings possible, so it's likely it was streaming the 720/50p profile.
Do they just chuck everything on at 720/50p, even if it doesn't need it? I suppose the repeated frames compress well, but I can imagine it might confuse some playback systems, especially if they're trying to do something motion related.
I expect so - all BBC shows are delivered 50i and if they have rolls or crawls on the credits they should be 50i. So even if the content is shot 25p, there could be a benefit for the credits in running 50p...
NG
Standard rule of thumb on Top Gear is that studio is 50i, glossy films are 25p, and track stuff can be either (used always to be 50i)
noggin
Founding member
Casualty
I am so accustomed used to shooting in 25p the sight of 50i in a viewfinder makes things look "too smooth" and fluid and I can't get used to it, only 1 show I work on uses 50i, everything else is 25P. But I remember vividly thinking the opposite when 50i was the norm and I first started to shoot progressive, it looked stuttery and wrong. Now I hardly ever notice, the one recent exception where I found it positively distracting was on a recent Top Gear when they used a mix of 25p and 50i content in the same show, having the two next to each other in studio and VTs was jarring.
Standard rule of thumb on Top Gear is that studio is 50i, glossy films are 25p, and track stuff can be either (used always to be 50i)