noggin's posts, page 289

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NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards

Rkolsen posted:
HarryBNF posted:
Worzel posted:
Was there any reason why the BBC News at Six used a recorded newsroom trundle cam shot this evening? You could tell it was recorded as someone was sitting at the studio desk as the camera zoomed towards studio E, but when they cut to the studio shot George was standing at the cat walk.

Just watched back the shot and it actually isn't recorded, if you watch the mini screens next to computers in the newsroom they show the titles forming with the 6 as little live relay. The person you think sitting at the desk is actually just a studio camera thats confusing your mind to make it look like someone is in the seat. Plus Reeta is sat in the newsroom prepping for the 10.


How are the feeds distributed in house to those TVs on the desk? Is there an inhouse cable system or are they IP based?


In BBC NBH, as in BBC Bush House before it, the 'Ringmain' is DVB-T terrestrial (not DVB-C cable) based. There is also a multicast IPTV system available for the wider BBC (but I think it has fewer channels than the News DVB-T system) The Multicast system works with generic IPTV set top boxes but is mainly used for viewing TV on your main PC desktop.

The one at Bush was a bit 'odd' in that it used DVB-T across a much wider frequency band than was used for DVB-T OTA in Europe - effectively treating it as a 'cable' system, but not using DVB-C modulation. As a result the Bush DVB-T ringmain only worked with a small number of STBs that would tune across the wider range, and many DVB-T TVs would only receive a subset of channels. This is no longer the case at NBH.

At TV Centre, in the newsroom, an analogue RF system with two RF feeds to each desk was available - as there were too many channels to fit into a single analogue ring main. There were external tuners that handled the switching between channels, and avoided the need for IR remote controls (you can imagine how good THAT would be with a TV on each desk...) The analogue ringmain was carefully thought out though - so that news and non-news specific services were on different analogue rings, avoiding the need for external tuners for general use TVs in green rooms, meeting rooms etc.

I don't know if the Main-block ringmain was simply one of the two News RF feeds (or one of the two News RF feeds was the main block ringmain) but I think they were different, as you could watch individual main block studios on the main-block ringmain, but I don't think you could watch them in the newsroom without them being specifically booked (though the news studios were available)
Last edited by noggin on 26 November 2016 12:34pm
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

Rkolsen posted:
noggin posted:


Ikegami totally lost their way in the move to HD... They seem to have pretty much disappeared in Europe in camera terms... The Alexa-live hybrid camera was a nice idea - but Sony have effectively killed it with the F55 Live it seems.


Many stations in the US seemed to have installed the small Ikegami box cameras similar to Sony's HDC-P1. The cameras are cheap, they don't require a base station, expensive triax runs and produce good quality pictures. Stations that want quality still go for the Sony HDC series or now Grass Valley's LDX-86 (which is in place now at WNBC).


P1s (and similar) are quite common in Europe in studios that have fully automated camera mountings, and thus don't need all the additional facilities and functionality that a regular studio/OB camera would have (like talkback, reverse vision and prompt feeds down the camera cable, flexible viewfinders, nice ergonomics for handheld use etc.) Given that they are effectively an HDC-2500/1500/HSC-300 quality camera in picture terms (albeit without SMPTE/Triax connectivity) they are a good fit. They are also widely used in locations where their size makes them less obtrusive (such as 'effects' shots on state occasions)

That said - you can only route the HD-SDI outputs from these cameras over relatively short runs, so you normally have to convert to fibre for many deployments (though you can use cheap fibre rather than SMPTE obviously)

The other obvious area they are used is Steadicam (where you usually use an RF back and external VF integrated into the harness) - where they first appeared in 3D rigs, but are now using in 2D. Sony also have a UHD equivalent based on the HDC-4300.

I have seen some cheapskate broadcasters try and use them manually. The results are usually not great for operators.

Ikegami make them - but as I said elsewhere, Ikegami are kind of dead in Europe in camera terms these days. They are now in the same death-zone as Panasonic and Hitachi in camera terms. You only ever see Sony or GrassValley (aka Philips) in broadcast use, even at the lower end.

This is partially because big broadcasters will do procurement deals to allow them to get larger discounts on a single model of camera across their entire estate. (The BBC did this with the Sony HSC 300 for Broadcasting House, and I believe have installed HSC-300s in some English regions, which are currently still SD, to replace ageing first gen 16:9 SD cameras). You also save significantly on spares and service if you have a single model deployed.

I know that operators massively prefer Sony over GrassValley in ergonomics terms, and that many vision operators, and particularly vision supervisors, prefer the Sony camera control system. (GVGs had a little too much lag at one point)

Most new trucks in the UK appear to be being built around HDC-4300 or LDX-86N UHD cameras (with IP beginning to be deployed in anger in new trucks such as Arena's OB X, Y and Z to avoid quadlink HD-SDI) However studios are still basically HD (though I think Timeline may have a UHD studio in their BT Sport operation now - where previously they would have used a UHD OB truck parked outside)
Last edited by noggin on 26 November 2016 10:59am - 3 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV restructuring CITV - Boss faces the axe

Riaz posted:

4. What do indie producers of children's programmes in Britain want?


Not sue what that question is aiming to elicit?

Presumably indies want commissions, money to make them, and production deals that allow them to retain rights for overseas (and future UK) sales?
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

bluecortina posted:
Given the timing I can only assume they were the 11" oled viewfinders. That was a major selling point with the camera department. No-one else could offer it, in fact I don't think ikegami were even quite able to offer production cameras, they wanted absolute perfection out of their kit and demonstrated a camera with a lower signal/noise ratio than was theoretically possible and they wanted to wait and fully develop it before offering a camera to the market. So that was a lost order for a dozen+ or so complete camera channels including those very expensive viewfinders. All bought 'on the knock' so's to speak.

Edited to add, and of course Sony also immediately offered to get their cameras into the hire market so that purchasers would be able to hire additional channels asap if needed.


Ikegami totally lost their way in the move to HD... They seem to have pretty much disappeared in Europe in camera terms... The Alexa-live hybrid camera was a nice idea - but Sony have effectively killed it with the F55 Live it seems.
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

Markymark posted:
noggin posted:
bluecortina posted:

The OLED's for the HDC were, I thought, 11" but that does sound a bit big I have to say - Markymark?

I do know that they were £15k each. I'll repeat that -£15k - each, as in each. But they are rather fab.


The 11" OLEDs were the first gen OLED option, and the only OLED viewfinder available at one point. They were too big and too expensive for most sport and studio applications - though great for critical focus (say where you are tracking on-shot in drama - like EastEnders - who bought a couple).

B&W CRTs were usually operator choice over the big OLED (which were just too big) or the 7" LCDs (which were universally reviled as they were soft, laggy and just generally quite nasty) for HDC 1500s and HSC 300s c. 2009/10ish.

Once the 7" OLED arrived 2012/13ish that instantly became the de facto standard.


Checking my records, the 7 inch model became available around the end of 2010/beginning of 2011.
List price (then) was about 10k Euros Cool


Earlier than I thought... Could be that I only became aware of it as a possibility when the price dropped a bit.
NG
noggin Founding member

Good Morning Britain

BroadcastWales posted:

People didn't love GMTV because of the name. But because of the presenters and simplicity of the show. That's why GMB is practically a evolution of GMTV.


Or is it because there is some black hole in the production offices of ITV Breakfast that just keep drawing the show back to GMTV... I do wonder how many of the production team are ex-GMTV bods and are just reverting to type or didn't see anything wrong with GMTV and want to return to it)
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

bluecortina posted:
noggin posted:
Markymark posted:

The CRT viewfinders for the HDCs were awful, in 2010 OLED versions were released, I can't imagine any of the CRTs not now being in landfill !


The monochrome CRTs for the HSC300s (and I imagine the HDCs?) were a LOT better than the god awful colour LCDs... The 7" OLEDS were (and are) the best solution.

(ISTR that at early HD Wimbledons - the second time around (!) - the LCDs lasted about a day before CRTs appeared...)


The OLED's for the HDC were, I thought, 11" but that does sound a bit big I have to say - Markymark?

I do know that they were £15k each. I'll repeat that -£15k - each, as in each. But they are rather fab.


The 11" OLEDs were the first gen OLED option, and the only OLED viewfinder available at one point. They were too big and too expensive for most sport and studio applications - though great for critical focus (say where you are tracking on-shot in drama - like EastEnders - who bought a couple).

B&W CRTs were usually operator choice over the 11" OLED (which were just too big or too expensive) or the smaller LCDs (which were universally reviled as they were soft, laggy and just generally quite nasty) for HDC 1500s and HSC 300s c. 2009/10ish.

Once the 7" OLED arrived 2012/13ish that instantly became the de facto standard.
NG
noggin Founding member

Scorebars / scoreboard OSGs - history, firsts and lasts

Steve in Pudsey posted:
The BBC Micro was also capable of contributing to the occasional pres cockup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXidrTS9d20

Weren't they also used for VT clocks in some places?


Lots of BBC English regions used BBC Micros (and in some cases Amigas) to generate VT Clocks.
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

Markymark posted:
bluecortina posted:


I have a dim recollection that when Fountain bought their first HD cameras (the hdc1000/1500) there was an industry announcement from Sony that they had been bought them through a finance arrangement. That's a very common way to buy expensive capital kit in the tv industry. Maybe the cameras have been subsequently replaced, I wouldn't know, although when I see inadvertent shots of the cameras nowadays they appear to have colour viewfinders which the originals didn't as Sony had not yet then released them for sale.


The CRT viewfinders for the HDCs were awful, in 2010 OLED versions were released, I can't imagine any of the CRTs not now being in landfill !


The monochrome CRTs for the HSC300s (and I imagine the HDCs?) were a LOT better than the god awful colour LCDs... The 7" OLEDS were (and are) the best solution.

(ISTR that at early HD Wimbledons - the second time around (!) - the LCDs lasted about a day before CRTs appeared...)
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

LCL92 posted:
deejay posted:
If it moves into more frequent television production though, I wouldn't have thought it would break the bank, or be structurally impossible to fit more permanent television lighting grid equipment. This could be the start of a new television studio facility, and lets face it, there's a distinct shortage of them in London at the moment!


True, I feel it's just a shame it's so far out of central London.


Eh? It's in Park Royal. It's not massively further out than TV Centre or Fountain were. Certainly a lot closer than Elstree and Maidstone, Pinewood or Shepperton.
NG
noggin Founding member

Junior Eurovision 2016

ISTR ITV went big on it, it tanked, and even though they'd kind of committed to hosting it the following year, they pulled out.

The Nordic countries entered for a while (quite a few Swedish Melodifestivalen favourites represented Sweden at JESC), but I think they withdrew as they were concerned at the pressure it put the contestants under (and probably also because it seldom hits the production values of the main Eurovision).
NG
noggin Founding member

Scorebars / scoreboard OSGs - history, firsts and lasts

Acorn machines - BBC Micros and the Archimedes/Risc PC range were widely used for on-screen graphics in the 80s and 90s.

Gardeners World used to use a BBC Micro for their captions. (They recorded multiple as-live sequences, in-sequence, and took a finished programme master away with them from the OB)

Mastermind used to use an Archimedes for their score graphics. (They were monochrome so used one of the RGB channels for the key and one for the fill - rather than self-keying)

As many have pointed out WWTBAM used to use Acorn machines, and the company behind the graphics spent a lot of time and money developing their own ARM-based TV graphics solution, but for some reason it didn't ever hit the market. (I think that one of the chips it was based around EOLed or was prototyped but didn't move to manufacture?)

Acorn RISC PCs were widely used for Omnibus/Columbus products, and also used for a number of BBC in-house control applications (such as remote tally, iris/black/paint control of radio cameras which didn't have a triax/fibre connection that would normally be needed for these)

Both the BBC Micro and the Archimedes/Risc PC had genlock facilities (which were vital for broadcast graphics use) and were robust enough to survive an OB life.