noggin's posts, page 288

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NG
noggin Founding member

25, 30, 60 Frames Per Second

I'd be interested in seeing something shot and played back at 600fps. I assume it would eliminate motion blur when your eyes follow an object across the screen, yet wouldn't have a high-speed shutter look (a la anything made in Europe with Jason Statham in it).


300fps pretty much does that by all accounts. I saw the great BBC 25/50/100p demo at IBC a few years ago where the benefits of 100p at reducing motion blur on moving content were amazingly clear to see. 120p with a narrower-angle than usual shutter is NHK's approach - be interesting to see if the shuttering is mitigated by the higher frame rate and doesn't look 'juddery' (1/150th shuttered 50i looks very odd - i.e. SuperSlowMo cameras cut to air live)
NG
noggin Founding member

25, 30, 60 Frames Per Second

Tomos posted:
AIUI around 220-300fps is the limit of response time for trained viewers (fighter pilots have to recognise shapes moving VERY quickly and were subject to some research) Once you go above 300fps you are capturing higher temporal resolution than the eye/brain can differentiate between.

The BBC have trialled 300fps acquisition (albeit not in real time) - and NHK are suggesting that 120fps with shorter than usual shutter speeds could be very effective for 8k Super Hi Vision, and that is likely to be a standard.


That's some pretty interesting information, but still, with those figures, you're dealing with still images put together to create the illusion of motion...


All current moving image capture solutions are effectively based around temporal sampling (i.e. taking a sequence of still images and then redisplaying them - using the eye/brain's persistence-of-vision to merge them into perceived motion), just as digital still image capture is based around spatial sampling. Digital TV is thus using spatio-temporal sampling.

I guess object based capture - where you create a 3D model of the scene you are trying to convey, complete with motion tracking, might achieve something close to what you want - but unless you can find a way of injecting this into someone's consciousness or brain, I am not sure how you would render it without using a sequence of stilll images.
NG
noggin Founding member

25, 30, 60 Frames Per Second

AIUI around 220-300fps is the limit of response time for trained viewers (fighter pilots have to recognise shapes moving VERY quickly and were subject to some research) Once you go above 300fps you are capturing higher temporal resolution than the eye/brain can differentiate between.

The BBC have trialled 300fps acquisition (albeit not in real time) - and NHK are suggesting that 120fps with shorter than usual shutter speeds could be very effective for 8k Super Hi Vision, and that is likely to be a standard.
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

I wonder if Simon ever considered (or even tried) buying the studios in order to save them?


He's a businessman above all else - why would he throw money away to save them?
NG
noggin Founding member

Fountain Studios To Close

So the first ITV show from there was a childrens show in a long demolish Studio 3. The remainder of the site doesn't look that huge in the grand scheme of things, but I guess in London every square foot counts - and pays.

Presumably the owners of Fountain are just taking the money and running rather than staying in the studios business.


Have a feeling the owners were not the operators of the business?
NG
noggin Founding member

BFI to digitise 100,000 British TV programmes


The BBC have been digitising their D3 archive in a clever way. It's a digital format that stored composite video. Once something is composite it's impossible to get it back into its seperate components cleanly so any transfer into a video format won't be ideal. So what they're doing instead is they're archiving the raw data from the tape. This means that should someone come up with a better solution for dealing with composite video they can go back to the D3 master even though it doesn't physically exist

Not quite the case.

The BBC are replaying D3 (and 1"/2" transfers to D3) in digital composite, but then decoding them to digital component via the amazing BBC R&D TRANSFORM PAL decoder. This generates stunningly good - close to component quality - decoded pictures which are then losslessly recorded as data to LTO tape AND dubbed to Digital Component DigiBeta.

The lossless LTO 'file-domain' copy is a lossless recording, but of the component NOT composite signal. AIUI it isn't the digital composite signal, or the raw data, but the digital component copy that is losslessly recorded.

HOWEVER - the TRANSFORM PAL decoding process is mathematically reversible, so you can play the lossless component data back through a reverse TRANSFORM encoder and accurately recreate the PAL composite digital source signal, just in case a better PAL decoder comes along again in the future. In reality I don't think many (any?) reverse TRANSFORM encoders exist in hardware, but it would likely be a software process - as would any future improvements in PAL decoding allied to it.

Quote:

These BFI tapes will be mostly analogue so don't have that option of course, I wonder what digital video format they will use?


I hope they use PAL TRANSFORM decoders for PAL composite stuff (though the BBC own the only ones in existence I think - and they are based on a lousy hardware platform with dodgy PSUs - which is the same as the old COM^3 Composite Compatible Component gear from the mid-90s) and an archive quality lossless format (There is a lot of traction for a couple of open source lossless codecs in archive circles these days I believe)

Let us hope they don't do what one broadcaster, who will remain nameless did. Took their 2" Quad B&W recordings and fed them straight into an XD Cam deck's composite input. Cross chroma/luma artefacts baked into the archive copy of a B&W show... If they'd just used the analogue component Y input they could have avoided that...
JasonB and Inspector Sands gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards

Seeing more and more new HD trucks for the regions on 16e. Latest I saw was Norwich HD. Maybe signs of things to come...


I don't think you can read too much into that. BBC News now operate the BBC English Regions news operations, and the newsgathering facilities (particularly regional SNG and VSat trucks) are funded to provide coverage for network news (which has been HD for a couple of years now since the move to NBH)

Similarly all new tapeless ENG/PSC cameras bought by English regions and BBC News over the last few years have been HD / SD switchable (e.g. PMW 500s, the cheap JVC VJ cameras etc.) "Inside Out" in many regions (all?) is now routinely produced in HD, with one region selected each week to be broadcast in HD on BBC One England HD, and in some cases cut-downs of Inside Out reports have been broadcast in HD on The One Show and other BBC News HD outlets.

That doesn't mean English regions will be rushing to upgrade their studios to HD - even if they have HD studio cameras. AIUI the upgrade at BBC Plymouth has caused a major rethink in how HD production upgrades should happen, with a lot of discussion about whether the Local Radio VILOR model (which is heavily based on remote IP-based production - with equipment housed off-site in data centres) could be a more cost-effective approach (and less disruptive on-site potentially)

However there was a charter aim to get BBC One HD in England to be regionalised - though that could be SD upconversions of regional content in the first instance.
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV restructuring CITV - Boss faces the axe

Bigger audience share, but almost always lower ratings.

Well that doesn't quite add up.

I'm not sure where Square Eyes got his info from. But from looking at BARB ratings from the last few months, CBBC had higher ratings generally than Disney Junior.


What hours does Disney+1 broadcast between? It could be that the way they are calculating some figures assists channels that broadcast across longer hours, or across fewer hours. I've seen both methods used to boost or reduce figures 'creatively'
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV restructuring CITV - Boss faces the axe

Isn't Disney Junior more in competition with CBeebies?


Yes, I don't think it's really a like for like comparison.

To bring this back to CITV, here's a comparison of CBBC vs CITV % audience share in the last 12 months.

CITV has been on the rise in recent months, not sure what caused the August spike ?

*

Incidentally, POP has had quite a meteoric rise in share this year and is bigger than CITV.

That might have been around the time the new series of Pokemon started which had a little extra buzz thanks to Pokemon Go.


Could also be related to the Olympics - as they caused a bit of disruption for some services as BBC Four changed transmission hours, which had a knock on for some of the kids services (particularly HD?)?
NG
noggin Founding member

Cue Dots

Did C4 Playout handle ITV Schools Playout or was it an ITV contractor
I was watching George and Mildred the other day and noticed cue dots on the left as well at a rather random unexpected time, as the usual one on the right which did come on at the right times, so the question is what was the purpose of the left hand side cue dot?


Still in use today for live shows on ITV, only thing is we have hidden them Very Happy



Invisidot, using some Axon cards and VBI idents ? It can be hit and miss though, some distribution circuits strip out the VBI, and kills the system ! Which kind of demonstrates why something within active picture is 100% bomb proof !


Yes - increasingly contribution circuits only carry the active picture area. Some encoders and decoders are aware of the various signalling standards and will carry them separately, but this is by no means guaranteed (particularly on international distribution)

In-vision cue dots are still bomb-proof (though you may still have to think about ARCing in some territories)...
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards


How are the feeds distributed in house to those TVs on the desk? Is there an inhouse cable system or are they IP based?


I think it's called Ringmain and it has a selection of outside sources you can choose to display on each screen (by using a small grey box plugged into the monitor)


No - the feed to the TV is the ringmain, the actual box is a Ringmain tuner.

Quote:

Ringmain I thought was an internal channel showing announcements.


No - here a Ringmain is a bespoke (usually RF but could be IP) TV distribution system - used in hotels, conference centres, newsrooms, office buildings etc.

Quote:

Does anyone have details of the STB?

Edit : Here's the box I'm talking about underneath the TV. Additionally who makes what appears to be an intercom solution untderneath the monitor:




Sonifex Newsroom system - specified and bespoke to the BBC I think. There were analogue versions at TV Centre. It allows tuning of video and audio either together or split (the analogue models allows teletext access too ISTR) They have manual keypads for channel changing and other functions for very obvious reasons.. (Think of hundreds of identical IR remote controls being used in a room...)

Quote:

Additionally what's the manufacture of the product with the green LEDs and the microphones.





I ask because the products and manufactures are different in the US than the U.K..


That's a Delec desktop talkback box.

Delec no longer exist (which is a bit unfortunate for the BBC as they based almost all of NBH around Delec talkback kit). It was not particularly liked by operators and engineers alike, and made little headway in the UK outside the BBC (no-one else bought it). TBS, in the US, announced a major purchase - but I don't know if that actually came to fruition.

Riedel have bought Delec's Intellectual Property, but aren't continuing the product lines AIUI (Delec had some nice IP-based intercom stuff which Riedel may well fold into their Artist or similar series of products)

In the UK Riedel is incredibly popular (Sky, IMG, BT Sport, Arena, BBC Sport are all based around Riedel) though RTS and Clearcom also have some impact on the market. (Trilogy was - and is - used by BBC News as well - but I think have been bought up by another manufacturer recently. Trilogy was the standard talkback solution for BBC News at TV Centre, and is still deployed - alongside Riedel - for the elections)

UK and US talkback differ significantly - and have different requirements as a result. (UK systems are based far more around 4 wires than 2 wires, and the concept of the "Production Loop" is unheard of in the UK, where "Open Talkback" is used - but with a far more matrix-based talk/listen system that allows different mixes to be generated for individual operators or groups)
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards

"Ringmain" is a fairly old fashioned term now, and I think a BBC only one. In radio, several audio channels were piped around the newsrooms and staff could use rotary selectors to switch between whichever audio feed they desired, John Simpson describes his first days in the newsroom as believeing everyone to be earnest and very serious, utterly committed to their listening, until he discovered that most of them were tuning in to the cricket.


Ringmain is in use elsewhere as a term too. It is used by hotels to describe their bespoke RF distribution system too I believe.