noggin's posts, page 27

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NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters


But shouldn't the national public broadcasters in those respective countries have near exclusive rights to show the programmes in question?

They do have 'near exclusive' rights. The rebroadcast of neighbouring country channels is a specific exception. They are not part of any general packages - and are almost always a separate 'bolt on' aimed at ex-pats. The vast majority of viewers in Sweden won't have paid for access to NRK or DR/TV2 as an extra subscription on their pay-TV platform, and will only have access to the NRK and DR shows that SVT have acquired (i.e. bought) when they are broadcast on SVT channels or made available on SVT Play.

This is similar to the situation with the BBC in Benelux countries. The BBC have a commercial deal with platform operators that allows BBC One and BBC Two to be carried on their pay-TV platforms (though in this case they are often not a bolt-on but part of a general package due to the popularity of BBC channels). The BBC still sells shows to Dutch, Belgian and Luxembourgeois broadcasters - even though those shows may have been previously available to a smaller audience live on BBC channels at an earlier date. They are minor exceptions.

Quote:

In Canada, ABC/NBC/CBS is available on most pay-TV but it's practically pointless because during the primetime hours, a feed from a Canadian network replaces those US network feeds.


Yes. That's pretty unique to Canada I believe, largely because Canadian and US stations broadcast the same shows at roughly the same times? That's very different to the NRK/DR/SVT and BBC situation where the shows could be being shown weeks, months or years later on their neighbouring broadcasters' channels.

Quote:

If their practise is to dub the programmes into the broadcaster's main language, it would be understandable as Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes can't be expected to understand the other languages perfectly.

Dubbing is unheard of outside kids shows in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands.

Subtitling is universally used for all shows aimed at those who can read, dubbing is kind of unheard of in those territories.

Swedish and Norwegian have an incredibly high level of mutual intelligibility, Norwegian and Danish have high levels of mutual intelligibility (less so a bit for Swedish and Danish), and English is nearly universally intelligible to the Dutch.

French and German language shows will also be subtitled not dubbed in Scandinavia (the same is now true in the UK by the way)

In Norway the subtitles for non-Norwegian language shows on NRK are entirely optional and rendered by the set top box (rather than being hard-subbed or burned-in), so if you speak English or understand Swedish, you don't have to watch with subtitles if you don't want to.

(When NRK showed 'The Bridge' which has Swedish and Danish dialogue (mirroring daily life where people don't speak each others' languages but understand them), the broadcast was entirely clean, and you could chose whether to have Norwegian subtitles or not. In Sweden and Denmark SVT and DR put hard burned in subtitles for the non-native language dialogue, and where conversations were mixed they also often subtitled their own language for consistency (it's quite confusing if you watch a scene with two characters talking but only one being subtitled)
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NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters

The main UK channels have been widely available in the Republic of Ireland for decades. One Irish historian put it that the Irish hated everything about Britain all except their television, which they loved watching.

Spill over signals of BBC and ITV from Northern Ireland and Wales reached 40% of the Republic of Ireland by the time their national television broadcaster Telefis Eireann commenced broadcasting on December 31st 1961.


Indeed. There were so many 405/50 TV receivers already in use in the Republic to watch the 405/50 BBC and ITV broadcasts that even though RTÉ launched with 625/50 production, they realised they needed to broadcast a 405/50 conversion in regions that had lots of viewers already watching UK TV so that these viewers could watch with their existing TV sets.

If they had broadcast in 625/50 only, the existing Irish TV audiences would only have been able to watch the BBC and ITV, and not RTÉ!

This, I believe, continued well into the 80s when the BBC and RTÉ both switched off their VHF 405/50 services.
NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters

dvboy posted:
When I stayed in Copenhagen in 2015 in an AirBnB I'm pretty sure SVT and NRK were available on the basic cable package.


Yep - they may be on various cable packages (there are odd rules in some countries that mean if you can receive a channel unencrypted off-air then you can rebroadcast it on cable - though this may not apply here)

I just checked - in Sweden you pay SEK49/month for Norway's NRK1,2 and 3/Super, SEK59/month for Denmark's DR1, DR2, TV2, and DR Ramasjang, and SEK 49/month for Finland's YLE1, 2, YLE Teema/Fem on Canal Digital satellite (one of the two main Pay-TV satellite operators). Canal Digital are at 0.8W. Note you only get the main PSB services - not the main commercial operators (TV2 in Denmark is a PSB). This is actually a bit less than I thought...

Viasat, the other main Pay satellite option in Sweden is at a different orbital position (4.8E) and also offers the same options for NRK and DR/TV2 channels (though it appears they are both SEK49/month)

Scandinavia is interesting in that it has two main competing satellite pay-TV operators - unlike the UK and Ireland who are dominated by Sky.
NG
noggin Founding member

YouTube Gold

What was that lunchtime fantasy share trading game that Channel 4 had? I really liked that and seem to remember playing along online. IIRC it had to be tweaked a bit because the tips and advice given were having an affect on the actual markets

Show Me the Money - was surprisingly watchable.

I've vague recollections of it being reworked as a weight loss format too.

That rings a vague bell. The BBC website, and later BBC Three had a similar concept called Celebdaq, based on column inches of celebrities


Yes - the website version of Celebdaq launched before the TV show, and continued for quite a while after the TV show was cancelled.
NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters


This sounds somehow counterintuitive. For one, some SVT programmes are seen in the DR and NRK in their original audio and vice versa. Why would SVT allow DR or NRK to show Swedish programming (and vice versa) only to tolerate the latter's presence on Swedish pay-TV platforms? That's what I don't get.


SVT don't 'allow' DR or NRK to show their programmes - they sell them to them (*). Each broadcaster will buy the shows from each other at a commercial programme acquisition rate. They don't give them to each other for free (usually - though the Mello final may be an exception, as making it available to neighbours allows SVT to recruit sponsorship for the show).

SVT can't control what contracts DR or NRK agree on with pay-TV providers to make their channels available in those territories, and the rights that DR and NRK purchase when they buy SVT shows to broadcast on their channels will include provision for their pay-TV presence (just as BBC programme purchase contracts include a small supplement for the rights to Benelux and Swiss 'cable' carriage)

In most cases the NRK and DR option in Sweden is a separate tier to the pay-TV platform I believe - you add it as a bolt-on - and it's not cheap. I suspect the number of subscribers is enough to cover costs for the pay-TV platform in handling the extra tier (the uplink costs are covered because the channels are on the platform already for broadcast to Norway or Denmark - as the Viasat and Canal Digital pay-TV platforms are pan-Nordic)

It's really there for ex-pats from each country to allow them to stay in touch, and I don't believe it's particularly controversial. Of course in border regions there is a degree of overlap on DVB-T/T2 so people in border areas can tune to their neighbouring countries FTA broadcasts to watch.

SVT, NRK and DR are good neighbours with each other in terms of production co-operation (they co-produce a lot of drama with each other) - so I can't see the availability of SVT in Norway and Denmark, DR in Norway and Sweden, and NRK in Sweden and Denmark, being a huge issue for minority audiences?

(*) I believe that SVT, NRK and DR showing each others' programmes is done via the normal routes of programme acquisition (where you pay to buy a show). It is possible that SVT, NRK and DR have a mutual scheme to 'swap' shows that is effectively the same as buying and selling but doesn't include financial transactions - though I'm not aware of such a deal and I would have thought it was difficult to implement when it comes to archive, stills, music and talent rights.
Last edited by noggin on 16 July 2020 8:28am - 2 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters


BBC 1 and 2 SD are also carried on one of the Dutch DTT muxes I think ?


Yes - and on cable in Switzerland too.
NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters

There are a couple of issues here :

1. Pay-TV platforms offering broadcasters from other countries on their platforms. In some territories re-broadcasts of neighbouring countries' stations (NRK, DR, SVT etc. in each other's countries) takes place because of rights agreements. This can be helped particularly if the pay-TV operator operates in multiple territories - meaning rather than re-broadcasting, satellite platforms can just 'add' those broadcasters to specific pay-TV tiers. (The UK and Germany are unusual in having unencrypted broadcasts of their main public service stations - most other countries PSBs are encrypted on satellites aimed at domestic viewing)

2. Free-to-air broadcasts being receivable 'out of region' - where hotels can receive ZDF or RAI for instance and make them available on their hotel ring main TVs for foreign guests etc.

3. Minority language border overlap exceptions. In some cases - like the Swedish-speaking bits of Finland, SVT from Sweden is made available in those regions on a special basis.
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News nostalgia, including BBC World

The temporary blue set in N6 had a smaller desk than that used in N2 ISTR, but this wasn't that obvious once the live shot was stitched into the CGI rendered space.

I'm trying to remember if they managed to squeeze both sets into the studio at the same time to allow for piloting. (When N6 was up-and-running with the Lambie Nairn look there was also a separate green-screen area in N6 used for pre-records - which may have given them just enough space if the blue set was rigged in that space, before the chroma key area was built)
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Breakfast - 16th July onwards

The social distancing rules haven't changed - but the essential travel argument has gone away.

So if you can manage social distancing safely, you can bring more people back into the studio I guess.

GMB are in a much better position than Breakfast in this regard because their half of TC3 is a lot bigger than the Salford Breakfast studio (so camera operators can be further away from each other and you can spread presenters out more). Breakfast have less need for in-studio camera operators though, as unlike GMB, they have a number of remote cameras.
NG
noggin Founding member

UKTV Presentation

dbl posted:
Bye bye RED BEE, BBC Studios and UKTV are moving playout to SES
https://www.ses.com/press-release/ses-delivers-video-services-bbc-studios


Yes - though the UK BBC PSBs - BBC One, BBC Two, CBBC, CBeebies/BBC Four - will remain with Red Bee as they are not BBC Studios channels. So Red Bee still have BBC PSBs, ITV, C4 and I think C5, along with BT Sport and quite a few others?

The channels that are leaving Red Bee are the UKTV channels that BBC Studios now own outright.

Also part of the same deal, the international BBC Studios-run channels like BBC Brit, BBC Knowledge, BBC First, BBC Entertainment, BBC Knowledge etc. that were previously handled by Globecast are moving to SES.
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV Breakfast


Add it to the list, Fablon, Hoover, Avid, Aston, Workmate....


Jetski and Jacuzzi are two other common ones that style guides remind people not to use generically.
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC NEWS CUTS

The BBC are the ones choosing what to cut though, and time and time again it’s always stuff that nobody else does, whilst ringfencing populist mainstream output that everyone does


The populist mainstream stuff is what keeps the argument for universal funding in place. Making shows that nobody else makes, that few people watch, really doesn't help support the argument for everyone paying for it. Making popular entertainment and drama shows justifies the BBC's existence, and allows it to do the more niche stuff.

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting they move away from mainstream programming entirely (I'm certainly not) but that a drop in that area would be more likely to be less noticable/picked up by someone else more than cuts to core news services that is the foundation of the entire BBC.


Many would argue with the statement that the core news service is the foundation of the entire BBC. Others would say popular entertainment and drama are just as important. Take either away and you are left with a poorer service.

The bottom line is that currently, each month, the BBC is losing an extra £40m due to the continue provision of free licences for over-75s. That's roughly the equivalent of Radio One or BBC Four's entire annual budget. Every single month.

Difficult decisions have to be taken.
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