noggin's posts, page 26

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NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters

Yes but that would not matter if there is a must-carry rule.


Wouldn't this be more of a 'can carry' rather than a 'must carry' situation ? (AIUI in the countries where the 'if you can receive it, you can distribute it' rules apply there is no mandate to carry, just an option to (*))

(*) North America may be different - but everything about North America is odd to a European in TV terms... (Apart from the French DVB-T stuff on St Pierre and Miquelon Wink )
NG
noggin Founding member

European Equivalents of Legacy (ex-analogue) UK channels

As for TV2 Denmark, I guess that's in a similar situation to where C4 was after the move away from ITV advertising levy funding, and before it became a full public service corporation (so in the interim period where it was more commercial than it is now?)
NG
noggin Founding member

European Equivalents of Legacy (ex-analogue) UK channels

Kunst posted:
No, they don't, you're probably confusing Germany with Denmark or s'th else

Said that, DTT is not a widespread way of watching TV in Germany
I think Germany's commercial channels are encrypted on DTT and require a monthly fee to watch?



Didn't the recent switch from DVB-T SD 576i25 MPEG2 to DVB-T2 HD H.265 1080p50 broadcast also introduce a paywall on DVB-T2 in Germany for most of the commercial channels? The same thing happened years earlier for the 720p50 HD DSat versions of Sat1, Pro7 etc. when they launched, but the difference between terrestrial and satellite is that the SD FTA versions remained available on satellite, but the HD pay-tv versions replaced the SD FTA ones on terrestrial.

The old SD MPEG2 versions were FTA on DVB-T, and remain FTA on DVB-S, but the HD versions, now the only versions on terrestrial, are pay? (The SD versions were switch off on terrestrial when DVB-T was closed)

https://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=ARD-BR&liste=2&live=18&lang=en

The green channels are FTA (Das Erste, ZDF etc.), the white channels are encrypted (Sat 1, Pro 7 etc.). The so-called 'Freenet' isn't actually free AIUI - it's just low cost (and requires a CI+ CAM and viewing card)
Last edited by noggin on 25 July 2020 5:03am
UKnews and headliner101 gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

European Equivalents of Legacy (ex-analogue) UK channels

Interesting take. I was looking at them more in terms of the intended audience of the content that they broadcast (mainstream, specialist) and ownership structure (private, commercial).

TF1, BBC One, and TV2 Denmark do get similar ratings relative to their respective competitors though.

FWIW, I may be wrong but if BBC One and ITV1 are competitors to each other as they're intended to be mainstream channels, BBC Two and Channel 4 seem to be competitors to each other in that they have more specialist content. Further, I believe ITV1 came before BBC Two.


Yes - ITV came before BBC Two (it launched 405 not 625, though it was Band III not Band I so you needed a new aerial and/or TV or bolt-on adaptor in many cases to receive it), but if you are looking at the Danish context, it's difficult to map the channels. DR2 is still really new, and TV2 is much closer to a BBC or C4 channel than ITV as it's government-owned and much more public service than ITV?

I think the reality is that it's really difficult to try and map other countries' channels to a UK context, as they don't exist in a UK context. In Sweden, for instance, there were no domestic commercial TV channels for many, many years (TV3 was beamed in from the UK to get round the Swedish commercial TV rules), and TV4 (which you can kind of equate to ITV in being the main commercial network in Sweden, didn't exist until 30+ years after ITV started in the UK)

Plus the heritage of channels is different, and many countries, like the UK, Sweden, France, Norway, Denmark etc. launched TV services with just a single channel doing all content. Two of the three Scandinavian countries (Sweden is an exception) for many years only had one channel broadcast by their main public service broadcaster, with secondary and tertiary channels only launching once multichannel satellite and then digital TV was launched (DR2 & NRK2 only launched in 1996 for instance) and have far less unque identities and heritage than BBC Two for instance, which launched 30 years earlier.

SVT2 started in a very different way to BBC Two (for years the then 'TV2' in Sweden was encouraged to compete with the original SVT 'Kanal 1' service, and they were editorially independent of each other within Sveriges Radio/Television, and TV2 (these days branded SVT2) - was more popular than the first channel, and was able to carry regional content (Kanal 1 was VHF, TV2 - like BBC Two - was UHF and thus more regionalised). It wasn't until TV4 launched in Sweden in the 90s that SVT2 stopped being the most popular channel in Sweden, and the two channels were revamped and became much more integrated with each other.
NG
noggin Founding member

European Equivalents of Legacy (ex-analogue) UK channels

I suspect this is kind of fraught with difficulty. It depends how you define equivalent - as the genre mix and heritage of BBC One, BBC Two, ITV and C4 are all pretty distinctive to the UK and don't map so well into other countries.

TF1 was effectively the first TV channel in France - or the descendant of it - so arguably TF1 was the equivalent of BBC One, and Antenne 2 (which became France 2) was the equivalent of BBC Two (as it was the '2nd' channel and launched 625 not 819 lines)

You could strongly argue that TV2 in Denmark was the equivalent of BBC Two (as DR2 is a pretty recent development)

As for ARD/Das Erste and ZDF in Germany, I don't think they really map into BBC One / BBC Two / C4 at all neatly.

Plus the regionality issue on public service channels (France 3 and the German third channels that carry regional content vs BBC One having regional opt-outs, DR has no TV regional news, TV2 does etc.) are difficult to map too.

And Belgium - you really need to consider both language territories - not just the Francophone?
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC NEWS CUTS

It's somewhat ironic: the smaller automated studios (C and E) need fewer people on the floor to operate, yet are extremely limited in being able to cater for socially distanced guests properly.

Studio B is by far the best studio for allowing safe social distancing even with several guests in place. But, perhaps the bottleneck then becomes the technical room or green room which feed the studio and don't qualify for the required distancing.

Either way, this is clearly a decision taken on purely commercial grounds as the operating costs of B must be vastly greater than the other two.

Studio B requires a far greater number of crew on the studio floor, who all need to remain socially distant from each other and other people in the studio, and it is far less suited to some of the production techniques designed to reduce person-to-person interaction (such as using radio talkback and radio mic packs and personal mics etc.).

Added to that the issues around handling studio guests within the wider NBH building, and nervousness about travel on public transport amongst many, I can see why there hasn't been a rush to bring the larger studio back into use.

Cost may be a factor (News have got to deliver some very significant savings now as they backloaded a lot of their cost cutting) - but I wouldn't say it was the only factor.
NG
noggin Founding member

UKTV Presentation

I always find the fact its original airing was after the queen's speech to be quite odd. You'd think such a high budget, ambitious episode would have gone out in prime time, not flung out in the afternoon (and against Coronation Street to boot). The first part the previous day had gone out in the evening.


Going out after The Queen's Speech would give it a huge inheritance wouldn't it? Prime time hours aren't the same as normal weekdays during holiday periods.
NG
noggin Founding member

TV Home - Automated recordings of BBC idents

Pete posted:
Everything is recorded. The BBC has a system called Redux that save the output of a lot of BBC channels onto server and is then accessible from a webpage. I think it had everything since 2006. A lot of bbc staff have access, as do some who aren't.


There's a website called Box of Broadcasts which is basically iPlayer for Further/Higher Education. It lets you "record" TV shows so you can cite them in your work. However all BBC content going back to 2007 is already there, which I suspect means its just sucking it from redux.

BoB has a nicer interface than Redux which, certainly until recently, was very rough and ready. Plus BoB lets you search using the subtitles which can be very helpful. It did miss the first few days of BBC Scotland though which was annoying. Which begs the question if its built off of redux why it can't be fixed retrospectively. Might email them.


Can you download from BoB? Or is it viewing only? On Redux I can download high quality raw mpeg-ts feeds of BBC programmes (there are options for smaller .mp4 files too).

My archive content is also missing from Redux except for the Shakespeare stuff.


Mention of subtitles search makes me think this may be related to Snippets (which is a child of BBC Redux that allows for searching via subtitles and sub-clipped export). Snippets only uses h.264 mp4 transcodes from the MPEG2 or h.264 video in the transport streams - and I suspect BoB might be similar as 'off air' quality isn't needed for most higher/further education citation?

(Snippets and Redux are both due to be retired within the BBC soon, with BBC Archive Search absorbing their front-end functionality)
NG
noggin Founding member

Television News Helicopters

The shoot on video, digital microwave term. Bonded Cellular afaik stations just say LiveU, Dejero, TVU etc.


Ah - the term ENG is never really used for digital microwave here. News broadcasters here seldom use digital microwave for final leg backhaul, that's really only used for non-news sport and entertainment shows who want 60Mbs+ links with low latency.

Of course microwave COFDM links are used for RF cameras (and helicopters etc.) - and some broadcasters in Europe have COFDM receive meshes in larger cities that allow RF cameras to be used live without support vehicles (or just a bike or car repeater) around the city. (The BBC have, or had, a set-up like that in parts of London and a 'News Bike' which is a motorbike which travels with an RF camera to set-up single camera live injects)

SNG is used to mean satellite though (though less used if it's VSAT IP rather than DVB Ku band).
NG
noggin Founding member

Availability of other national broadcasters


The same problem occurred for us when we had NTL Digital in England when watching the BBC Nations, Scottish Football was always blacked out for us. One would assume that NTL were using a satellite feed on that basis. The hold music was nice to listen to though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD66PMOcgT8


It may not have been a satellite feed, it may just have been the feed that was also used for satellite uplink. (i.e. the BBC provided NTL with the same feed - almost certainly over fibre - that the BBC also uplinked to satellite)
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2021 - Netherlands - NPO/AVROTROS/NOS

There were also clearly insurance related restrictions on exactly what they could and couldnt' do as well.


Yes - they couldn't run a 'Song Contest' in any way shape or form without compromising their insurance claims AIUI. (That's why they couldn't run the videos or have remote performances AND let the audience vote)
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2021 - Netherlands - NPO/AVROTROS/NOS

Quote:

Yes, I believe a few features that have made their way to the main song contest have been trialled at JESC. It’s certainly a reasonable theory that they might be trying a few things out. Interesting though this years Not-Eurovision from a Hilversum TV studio was, it did seem to suffer from being far too serious and was very slow. I stuck with it, but I know many casual Eurovision fans who gave up after 20 minutes.


I don't think Europe Shine A Light is in anyway indicative of what a stripped down or alternative contest would be like though.

Undoubtedly that show struggled to balance the seriousness of a global pandemic with the fun and escapism of Eurovision. For a UK audience that was, at the time, beginning to feela bit more optimistic about things, it didn't really hit the right note. (It rated lower than the BBC in-house 'chose your favourite Eurovision moment' show that was broadcast before it)

However I think it was kind of an impossible ask for the Dutch to make a show that worked tonally across a Europe that was in different stages of the outbreak (though it did feel a few weeks late in tone to a UK audience)
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