noggin's posts, page 256

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NG
noggin Founding member

Reporting of terrorism (North London incident)

Jon posted:
This is quite a radical idea that I'm expecting will be met with universal disagreement and I'm not even sure I agree with it so hear me out.

This morning it's looking very likely that we've seen another incident of a terrorist nature in the UK and it's hard to see any lives that will have been lost won't have been lost had the previous incidents recently not been reported to the extent they have been.

We know terrorism is fuelled by the idea perpetraters will get publicity after they carry out these evil acts. If the very incentive of these acts is media coverage how can we justify giving such media coverage? After all TV sports broadcasters annoyingly don't show people that run onto the pitch in fixtures for the very reason it would encourage others to do the same to get publicity. And that happening in football is really trivial and just gives most people a bit of a laugh and adds to the spectical and sense of occasion of say a World Cup final. So why do we afford those who want to take lives the oxygen of publicity and do something that will ensure more lives will be lost on future occasions?

There is a problem of planting the ideas into people's head. It only needs a minute percentage of the population to have an idea into their heads for hundreds of lives to be lost in the future.

I don't know what the answer is, if lots of people are killed in a public place it can't go unreported clearly but maybe we now have to have some form of controlled coverage. So I think anyone who carries out an attack of this nature should never have their name published for starters, their background and reasons behind the act also can't be reported when it can only encourage others with the same cause (or lack there of) and retaliations.

Media censorship of this nature is scary territory but I think some kind of 'major incident reporting law needs to be inacted. It's scary and seems very totalitarian but I believe it can save lives and to allow people who would be killed in this incidents to continue living their lives is more important than an idea of a free press or broadcast media. Clearly there is a chance any such law could be abused by people in power so we need to be carefull. But it just seems so obvious something has to be done.


I'm afraid this just plays even further into the hands of terrorists. It would push people away from verified and reliable sources, to social media (how would you stop 'citizen journalism'?) and spread 'fear of the unknown'.

The minute you start trying to control reporting of events - you are moving in a very dangerous direction. We do have D-Notices and similar legislation to prevent reporting of certain stories - but this is taken incredibly seriously before it is enacted.

We live in a free society. If we become less free - we are playing into the terrorist's hands.

We saw what happened with IRA reporting restrictions in the 80s. 'The Oxygen of Publicity' is very difficult to control.

I think we need to consider the effects 24 hour news reporting (TV, Radio, Online and Social Media based) has on our society - but it is incumbent on journalists to consider their role, not the state.
Footballer, bkman1990 and bilky asko gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

Channel 5 to revive Blind Date

Jon posted:
Yes, I understand what a focus group is, but I don't think something like moving the football highlights to 7pm is something you know is going to work for sure without trying it.


No - absolutely agree. The only way of truly finding out is to do it.
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV Playout Structure

As for the ITV SD feeds, they are downconverted from the HD version. Is it the same for the ITV digital channels, where there is a single feed for SD and HD?


2-4/Be have HD DOG's during shows broadcast in HD. SD doesn't.

Though the DOGs could be inserted downstream of the feed taken for downconversion - so that may not be relevant.

Quote:

However, if you subscribe to ITV Hub+ on Amazon Channels, they use what appears to be downconverted feeds without the HD DOG in 720p for the live channels. (Sky also use the downcoverted feeds used for the linear SD channels for NOW TV's 720p live channels).


It could be that these are derived from an SD feed, or the same pre-Dog HD feed that is downconverted for SD - if that is how the channel is derived?
NG
noggin Founding member

Channel 5 to revive Blind Date

Jon posted:
How would you go about that research then? What would it consist of? You couldn't just ask people I've they'd watch 'Match of the Day at 7pm. You couldn't just give a few hundred people their own ITV 1 schedule for a limited time to work out the figures would be.


Focus grouping amongst different viewer demographics are a way of 'testing the waters'...
NG
noggin Founding member

SNG, Mobile Uplinks, Bonded Cellular and Downlinks

I'm not sure if this would be the right thread but where are the Freesat channels uplinked? Are they uplinked together in one location or are essentially the broadcasters responsibility.

The transmissions for Freesat and Sky are the same, however there is a bit of a fudge in the metadata of each multiplex that has channels on for Freesat so they don't have to broadcast duplicates.

As for the uplinks, Sky and the BBC do their own and companies like Arqiva and Globecast uplink for other broadcasters


Yes - broadcasters on the Sky and Freesat platforms don't need to uplink two separate services - they can uplink a single service which can be received by receivers on either platform. When Freesat launched it differed from Sky in some regards (Sky use WST Teletext subtitles, Freesat - like Freeview - use DVB bitmapped subtitles), and had to ensure its EPG didn't 'interfere' with Sky's.

As a result FTA services that are on both platforms have to carry both WST and DVB Sub subtitles, both Sky and Freesat EPG data, and in some cases both Sky and Freesat interactive / digital text services.
NG
noggin Founding member

SNG, Mobile Uplinks, Bonded Cellular and Downlinks

I'm not sure if this would be the right thread but where are the Freesat channels uplinked? Are they uplinked together in one location or are essentially the broadcasters responsibility.


Depends on the broadcaster. Sky uplink their own services, and those of others from at least one location (which they inherited, or the use of, as part of the BSB merger I think - though I may be wrong)

The BBC uplink their own services, mainly, though they may also use third party uplinks for some services.

Quote:

There appear to be two large uplink dishes in what I think you guys secretly* call W12 for the BBC. And smaller dishes supposedly for News Access.


Not sure what you think is secret about W12. It's the London post code for the Shepherds Bush area? W1/W1A is the post code for the area that Broadcasting House, and surrounding buildings (like Wogan - formerly Western - House and Brock House) are situated in.

The BBC used to uplink services from the TV Centre site in W12 (still amazed that they got an uplink licence within the M25 - they are tricky to get hold of) - but since then I don't think any 'end user' services have been uplinked from the remaining BBC buildings (Broadcast Centre, Energy Centre etc.) in W12, though they may well downlink on-site there given that Ericsson are based there for playout of a number of BBC and non-BBC channels.

Quote:

*Amazing what you can find with a quick google search. They were really going for redundancy with some systems - installing a sewage treatment plant?


Not sure about sewage - but there was a (slightly ill-fated) on-site gas turbine generator system (commissioned when gas was cheap, in-service when it was less so...)

The BBC's main uplink locations are elsewhere... AIUI there is also a major downlink operation there - remotely controlled from W12 and/or W1.
NG
noggin Founding member

London Tower Block Fire

How did all the broadcasters refer to the location in their live bugs/introductions. ITV went for "West London" which seemed quite generic for me - it's not as if viewers out of London wouldn't know that Kensington was in the capital.

Also noticed that ITV have now changed their on location introductions so they begin "From West London" rather than end "In West London". I guess they can phrase it that way now they don't have anyone "in the studio" when they anchor on location.


North Kensington is one of those many quite vague areas in London - most people I know would call it Ladbroke Grove for a start. And as the tower is south of the Westway, some would say it's in Notting Hill anyway. All anyone can agree on is once you get past the canal it's Kensal Green, and once you're at Wood Lane it's White City.

In other words, "West London" is probably for the best.


Yes - you could also use Latimer Road (it's very close to that tube station and would be a good point of reference for Londoners and BBC London viewers) - but I agree West London is probably best for nationwide and international audiences.
Stuart and Blake Connolly gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV Playout Structure


Don't think you'd route 'through a server' for ad insertion. Servers are playout port usually (unless you are in 'channel in a box' territory)

The question is whether the regional variations are handled by playout automation systems that 'opt out' of the network feed for localised ad breaks and local programmes, or whether each regional playout automation system is permanently fully running its own schedule and they are slaved together by common triggers. Or somewhere between the two (with sub-regional adverts opt-ing out of a regional 'pseudo network' feed)

AIUI GMB opts are handled by a remote switching salvo fired by the GMB gallery - though I may be wrong.


There have been instances here in the US where the network feed is fed through a commercial and branding server that triggers the ads was what I was getting at.

But your question is much better written.

I believe you are right about the GMB opts.


I'll hazard a guess. With the exception of STV, which is not part of ITV plc, none of the regional ITV studios insert commercials - the feeds to all ITV transmitters originate at either Chiswick or Leeds. The outputs of all the regional ITV news operations are linked back to Chiswick/Leeds via IP feeds. Chiswick/Leeds simply switches the transmitter feeds between the sources incoming to it as required, including the Daybreak news bulletins which are no different from the regional news except that the timing of the Daybreak bulletins is not precise and has to be under the control of the Daybreak gallery. The Daybreak gallery initiates a 'news opt' with a panel in front of the director/PA which 'stands by' the remote regions that a bulletin is coming up and performs the switch at Chiswick/Leeds at the correct time. Similarly for the insertion of comms - Daybreak panel puts up the cue dot (not really needed now but handy for STV), and when it is removed 5 seconds prior to the break it initiates the comms switch at Chiswick/Leeds too. That's how I'd do it.

(And if I was considering Ch4/ITN News/any other live programming, I'd agree a rough break pattern with the TX controller at Chiswick in advance and let him listen to my open talkback - and deal with Leeds!).


That's a good answer - but not to the question that was originally asked I believe.

I believe the question is whether each ITV regional feed is played out separately as fully separate schedules - i.e. each regional ITV playout set-up has a server playing Corrie separately - or whether there is a network spine, with the ITV regional playout systems taking the same server ports (or even the same pre-cut 'network' source - and only splitting away for commercial playout, idents and cutting to the regional news studios.
NG
noggin Founding member

Helicopters Used for News Coverage


In the UK it doesn't - news broadcasters have standard pool arrangements for helicopter coverage to avoid needless competition, and allow collaboration to cope with refuelling. It's a very different world this side of the pond.


During the recession there were many pool arrangements. But now that stations are bringing in the money most are getting back there helicopters. There are a few large markets off the top of my head where almost all stations still share one helicopter such as Phoenix, Denver, Miami and San Diego.


Yep - it's a different world here. TV News organisations compete with each other journalistically - not on who has a better helicopter or the biggest doppler radar...

We truly find the US local news thing bizarre - just as US audiences must find our regional news operation a totally different experience.
NG
noggin Founding member

Watchdog

Salford's got to be better than the makeshift thing outside Broadcasting House. Rip Off Britain is a Salford production so there's already a team working on consumer affairs there


Rip Off Britaln, Watchdog / Rogue Traders and The One Show are all made by BBC Studios Topical and Live department, based in both London and Salford.
NG
noggin Founding member

Helicopters Used for News Coverage


As to the attract complaints - a building was entirely on fire. Wouldn't the lights, sirens and the noise from the fire would wake them up.


Reality is yes. I didn't hear much in the way of sirens and noise from the fire rescue effort (I could see the fire from my living room window) - but I can still hear the helicopter circling tonight.

I'm not complaining in any way - just making an observation.

Quote:


Also with this horrific tower block fire going on in London I'm wondering why the news helicopters haven't been deployed. The current vantage points are a bit far back. But with the long lenses they helicopters can get up close while being a safe distance away. Praying that there aren't any fatalities.


I'm not sure you need close-up pictures to see an entire tower block engulfed in flames.

Sure they are one way of telling the story and providing a 'live holding feed' - but the US obsessions with helicopter coverage is always a bit bemusing this side of the pond.

As we know - and many of us feared - there have been fatalities, and some very distressing pictures of people trapped in their flats have been broadcast (which is a questionable decision)


No but the helicopter would definitely provide extra angles - over head and all. The stations pay over a million a year for about 100 hours a month. They will use it up regardless if there's news or beauty bump shots. It certainly provides a competitive advantage.


In the UK it doesn't - news broadcasters have standard pool arrangements for helicopter coverage to avoid needless competition, and allow collaboration to cope with refuelling. It's a very different world this side of the pond.
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV Playout Structure

Thanks for the info. But what I was really wondering if their is one network feed plus backup that's routed through the various regions servers for ad insertion, GMB opts and regional news or each regions servers are each simultaneously playing out say Corrie locally?


Don't think you'd route 'through a server' for ad insertion. Servers are playout port usually (unless you are in 'channel in a box' territory)

The question is whether the regional variations are handled by playout automation systems that 'opt out' of the network feed for localised ad breaks and local programmes, or whether each regional playout automation system is permanently fully running its own schedule and they are slaved together by common triggers. Or somewhere between the two (with sub-regional adverts opt-ing out of a regional 'pseudo network' feed)

AIUI GMB opts are handled by a remote switching salvo fired by the GMB gallery - though I may be wrong.