noggin's posts, page 252

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NG
noggin Founding member

London Live


The BBC and ITV don't run a local broadcast operation. They run a regional one. The BBC - after a trial of local broadcasting - decided not to pursue it, and has left it to local papers and local TV operations.

Also I don't think you grasp how granular local government is here, and how big the London region is. The population of London is around 8.6million people, and BBC London's coverage extends further out than that. I'd be surprised if it didn't cover more than 10million viewers. That's more than 15% of the UK population.

London Live has a much weaker signal, and even though it broadcasts at a much lower data rate and in a much more robust mode (QPSK rather than 64QAM - delivering 8Mbs instead of 24Mbs+) it has a smaller coverage area by a bit (it doesn't really cover outside the M25, unlike BBC and ITV London)

London has around 33 borough councils in it, but then add all the surrounding areas as well, and you're probably well over 40 (possibly over 50) borough councils that you have to cover. The BBC and ITV London output is less than an hour and a half per day (longest bulletin is about 25-30'00") I simply don't understand how you think a single Local Government journalist will have multiple close contacts on more than 40 (probably more than 50) local councils?


Im sorry but the London is big and covers multiple councils and governments is such a weak argument. The DMA's covered by most US and Canadian stations are far larger and covers more people and multiple small communities with their own councils and mayors, police,fire, sanitation depts. So this supposed "coverage complexity" issue is weak. LA covers a large region of Southern California and this includes 18 million people hundreds of small suburbs and cities apart from the city of LA. As does NYC, Chicago, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Miami, Edmonton etc. Sorry but thats a weak argument.
*


Why is it a weak argument? It isn't an argument at all. It's a reason...

How many producers, reporters and correspondents are employed at each local TV station in LA. What is their news departments annual operating budget - and how do they effectively cover the multiple towns and cities effectively? Do LA local government reporters have contacts on each and every town board that have developed the trust of those reporting their areas, and how is the split between crime/court reporting and local government, industry etc.

The major difference between the US and the UK (and Europe in general) - is that there are no network affiliated local stations. BBC One London is BBC One Network with just a small local news provision. It's not a standalone local station - it's simply a news opt-out operation. The whole model is very different.

Where the BBC model does often work is that the local radio stations feed stories into it - but unlike most BBC English regions, BBC London only really has one major radio station covering the bulk of it's patch.

BBC East in Norwich and Cambridge have 6 local radio stations (Radio Norfolk, Radio Suffolk, BBC Essex, Radio Cambridgeshire, Radio Northamptonshire and BBC Three Counties Radio - many of which have multiple offices) feeding into their local news operations, BBC London only really has one. (With a bit of overlap with BBC South, BBC South East and BBC East's radio stations around the edges)
Night Thoughts and bilky asko gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

London Live



This is where print media and hyperlocal websites still have the advantage over broadcast media. They have contacts within the London boroughs.

I doubt the BBC, ITV or London Live which is based in Kensington had those contacts at Kensington & Chelsea Council before the Grenfell Tower disaster. The only local authority which got regular coverage on BBC London for example is Westminster which covers an area from the West End to inner parts of NW and W London.


Sounds like a weak or inadequate local broadcast media operation if thats the case.


The BBC and ITV don't run a local broadcast operation. They run a regional one. The BBC - after a trial of local broadcasting - decided not to pursue it, and has left it to local papers and local TV operations.

Also I don't think you grasp how granular local government is here, and how big the London region is. The population of London is around 8.6million people, and BBC London's coverage extends further out than that. I'd be surprised if it didn't cover more than 10million viewers. That's more than 15% of the UK population.

London Live has a much weaker signal, and even though it broadcasts at a much lower data rate and in a much more robust mode (QPSK rather than 64QAM - delivering 8Mbs instead of 24Mbs+) it has a smaller coverage area by a bit (it doesn't really cover outside the M25, unlike BBC and ITV London)

London has around 33 borough councils in it, but then add all the surrounding areas as well, and you're probably well over 40 (possibly over 50) borough councils that you have to cover. The BBC and ITV London output is less than an hour and a half per day (longest bulletin is about 25-30'00") I simply don't understand how you think a single Local Government journalist will have multiple close contacts on more than 40 (probably more than 50) local councils?
NG
noggin Founding member

TV people who appear in other programmes as themselves

Also, there was the terrible 'Ghostwatch' in 1992 where Parky, Sarah Greene, Mike Smith, and Craig Charles all appeared as themselves


Terrible?? Shocked


Oh it was, you've never seen it ?


Yes - really bad... For some reason it's gained cult-like status. I remember watching it go out and realising it was faked very early on.
NG
noggin Founding member

50 years of Test Card F


Well now, having read up this morning on this Telefunkun did unsuccessfully try and sue Sony for what they called a PAL-S decoder, using as you say a delay line to repeat the last line of chroma

http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/45_years_anniversary_of_walter_bruchs_pal_color_television.html

(Scroll down to almost the end, 'Sony's Special Way' )


Ah - so I was right about the way Sony used the delay line in a non-PAL-D manner, but I hadn't realised PAL-S wasn't patented.


But you only get half the vertical colour resolution?


You get half the theoretical 'perfect PAL-S' resolution (which is the same as 'real' NTSC would deliver at a 4.43MHz subcarrier freq and 625 line rate), but the PAL-D decoder itself averages consecutive lines (that's how the phase errors are cancelled), so you get a theoretical reduction of vertical resolution with a PAL-D decoder too, though not as much as the half of the Sony 'Not-quite-PAL' technique (which presumably also introduced some aliasing in the vertical chroma domain?)
NG
noggin Founding member

Helicopters Used for News Coverage

**EDIT - post I was commenting on has disappeared **
I think the difference in the UK and the US is that we'd expect the Met Office to provide that kind of information to all audiences - not those watching a specific TV station. We don't see that kind of essential public service as a commercial provision.

We have far fewer extreme weather events, but when we do have major weather issues (usually flooding or - in UK terms - heavy snow) the first port of call is usually BBC local radio and then BBC network and regional TV, along with online.

Just to be clear, we don't find the provision of weather coverage silly. What we find bizarre is that it is a function of commercial competition rather than a straight public service.
NG
noggin Founding member

50 years of Test Card F


Yes ! It was the switching of the chroma sub-carrier p hase every a lternate l ine (hence the name !) that was the key. (Hue errors were converted into saturation increases (or decreases) which the human eye is far less sensitive to. Some Japanese TV manufacturers circumvented the need to pay AEG Telefunken the patent licence, by not having the one line (64 us) delay-line in the TV, and instead had an NTSC style hue control, for the manual correction of the hue (Thus negating the whole point of PAL !)


They still had the delay line - but used it to repeat the previous line's chroma didn't they - so avoiding phase alternation aspect of the patent? Effectively they created an-NTSC-like chroma signal by replacing the lines that were phase alternated by repeating the previous line so all the lines presented to the decoder were in the same phase, like NTSC.

If they'd just ditched the delay line they'd have had to have used Simple PAL - which would still require the patent?


Well now, having read up this morning on this Telefunkun did unsuccessfully try and sue Sony for what they called a PAL-S decoder, using as you say a delay line to repeat the last line of chroma

http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/45_years_anniversary_of_walter_bruchs_pal_color_television.html

(Scroll down to almost the end, 'Sony's Special Way' )


Ah - so I was right about the way Sony used the delay line in a non-PAL-D manner, but I hadn't realised PAL-S wasn't patented.
NG
noggin Founding member

Helicopters Used for News Coverage


Anything but. Just live on the East side of the pond, where TV News is very different... (You don't find BBC or ITV regional news operations having 'doppler wars' with each other)


Who would regulate weather radar frequencies - Ofcom? The FCC does that here. Consultants say weather is a big draw in viewership and stations will spend what's needed for the most up to date information to bring viewers in and serve/protect the community of license.


Depends on the frequency band. Arqiva and the Joint Frequencies Management Group at Ofcom are involved in quite a lot of frequency licensing. Certainly if you want protected radio mic and RF camera frequencies you apply for a licence for the duration of your broadcast in that location, otherwise you play pot luck with unlicensed spectrum.

Weather radar frequencies may well be regulated in a different manner though.

However the UK has decent, high quality, national weather radar provision via the UK Met Office, so I don't see much point in duplicating this commercially. (We're a small country - so a nationally co-ordinated service makes sense.) The data is available commercially, and most weather services use it I believe.
NG
noggin Founding member

Main BBC News bulletin voiceovers

Isn't the name of the building technically New Broadcasting House now?


Only the new bit... (The site is made up of NBH, OBH and Peel Wing)
NG
noggin Founding member

London Live

I simply love this argument that London is too big to cover. Simply delicious. "People over here arent interested whats happening over there". Amazing. Do go on. Cool


London is a very difficult market to explain to someone who doesn't live here. It's New York, Washington D.C. and Los Angeles rolled into one in lots of ways. It's one the major centre of UK business, the centre of government, the centre of our entertainment and cultural industries. And above all it is not a single city - it's an evolution of lots of small villages that have run into each other.

it isn't that it's too big to cover - it's that it's that the big stories are covered so heavily by the national network news, and then the BBC and ITV regional news, that what's left over to cover by local TV is so parochially local, it has very little overall interest to most of the people watching...

Viewers in Ealing probably have very little interest in the goings on in Tower Hamlets etc... I live here - I know what I want to see on my TV in news terms...
NG
noggin Founding member

The 1980 ITV franchise auction


If you wanted to make glossy Saturday night telly you wouldn't be working for TSW and Border in the first place.


I think the point that the smaller ITV companies would have made is that there is more to ITV than shiny floor shows. Documentaries, drama and other genres could be well-served by being made by smaller, less obvious companies.

Yes - there is a critical mass required for big, long-running studio and OB entertainment shows and soaps, but smaller, in some cases more interesting shows, can (and were) made by smaller companies. I think there was a feeling that these shows were sometimes slightly frozen out.

Anglia, Scottish and TVS all made decent drama, Anglia made decent natural history etc.
NG
noggin Founding member

London Tower Block Fire

AlexS posted:
Chunk cut out of tonight's pitch battle due to it mentioning fire. This is pure stupidity now


Absolutely disagree - it's still a dominant news story and very much in the public consciousness, and inquests are still returning verdicts. Singing 'Burn Baby Burn' or something similar would have been in incredibly poor taste.

Right decision in my view.
NG
noggin Founding member

50 years of Test Card F

PAL was a German developed and patented system, but otherwise 9.5 out of 10


Yes, Telefunken were the guys. Worth noting, though, that much of the basis of PAL came from NTSC, so when you say "developed", important to make this clear, I think.


Yes ! It was the switching of the chroma sub-carrier p hase every a lternate l ine (hence the name !) that was the key. (Hue errors were converted into saturation increases (or decreases) which the human eye is far less sensitive to. Some Japanese TV manufacturers circumvented the need to pay AEG Telefunken the patent licence, by not having the one line (64 us) delay-line in the TV, and instead had an NTSC style hue control, for the manual correction of the hue (Thus negating the whole point of PAL !)


They still had the delay line - but used it to repeat the previous line's chroma didn't they - so avoiding phase alternation aspect of the patent? Effectively they created an-NTSC-like chroma signal by replacing the lines that were phase alternated by repeating the previous line so all the lines presented to the decoder were in the same phase, like NTSC.

If they'd just ditched the delay line they'd have had to have used Simple PAL - which would still require the patent?