noggin's posts, page 239

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NG
noggin Founding member

Local TV

I would suggest that as long as you had a national spine, you could go more local than the original ITV regional structure. Even then though, the number of 'regions' in the network would probably be quite small still. Westcountry used to have 4 sub regions, Central 3, Meridian had Thames Valley, South and South East. The old HTV could be split into 3 sub regions, West of England, South Wales and West & North Wales. STV has sub regions for their news. Overall you could create smaller sub-regions, but the total number would probably be no more than 40-50, and even that maybe being optimistic.


Presumably, the ultimate granularity would be taking all of the main tx, plus the main high-power relays as a basis. Most of the stations would be grouped into sub-regions, but some would justify the approach taken of having separate directional (low bitrate but highly robust) petals. The basis of a sub/micro-regional mux supporting BBC1, ITV, something else and something other else capable of splitting services between Liverpool & Manchester (Cambridge & Milton Keynes, Leeds & Sheffield, Edinburgh & Glasgow... etc) is probably all that is required. Most tx sites only need a unitary transmission to address micro regions, even frankly the Great Bellemonte!


I think the BBC and ITV would prefer not to be on low-power sub-regional muxes - and instead maximise reach, unless the sub-regional muxes guaranteed identical (or better) population coverage.

The approach taken for the main PSBs has always been 'coverage first', 'editorial split second' (i.e. make the editorial work with your coverage patterns, don't design your coverage patterns editorially) which makes absolute sense for channels largely carrying a network.

Unless you go down the route of radically replanning for SFNs - you're always going to be running local muxes on very low powers to avoid interference, which means running at very low data rates (the local mux in the UK is running at 8Mbs QPSK compared to the 24Mbs+ 64QAM of other DVB-T muxes as a result, so only carrying 3 poor quality MPEG2 SD streams)
Last edited by noggin on 1 September 2017 9:34am - 4 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member

Freesports

Is this on Freeview HD only? Tried retuning my SD box but Freesports didn't pop up.

It’s on COM8 - yep, Freeview HD only.


How have we ended up in this pickle in the UK, where DVB-T2 muxes are referred to as 'HD', despite
carrying some SD services ?


Yep - though to be fair it's worse than some countries where you needed to know which flavour of SD platform you needed for MPEG2 and H264 - as places like Sweden have had three (actually 4 if you include tests) levels of broadcast, not two.

1. SD MPEG2 on DVB-T only.
2. SD MPEG2 + SD H264 on DVB-T only. (With HD H264 on DVB-T experimentally)
3. SD MPEG2 + SD H264 on DVB-T, SD H264 + HD H264 on DVB-T2.
(AIUI Sweden will soon be SD MPEG2 just for one mux carrying SVT's SD channels, with all other muxes DVB-T2 carrying either SD or HD content)

This meant you had to read the small print on your TV (if you use a CAM) or STB to ensure compatibility - as they don't have such simple 'Freeview' or 'Freeview HD' branding - all three were branded 'Boxer'...

Maybe Freeview HD should have been called 'Freeview Generation 2' or something - but the main driving force for people to buy it was to get HD, so I'd argue it was a better branding decision...
NG
noggin Founding member

20 years since the death of Princess Diana

The schedule changes made on BBC One and ITV on Sunday 31st August 1997 were as follows:

BBC ONE

6.30pm - A special service for Diana was broadcast from St Paul's Cathedral, however the BBC had to leave the service and present a special bulletin covering the return to London of the coffin. They left the service around 7.00pm.

INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE TV ROOM, MANY THANKS TO THEM.


I would have thought that broadcasting live from St Paul's at short notice would be quite a technical logistical challenge - were there any already planned broadcasts from there over the Bank Holiday weekend?


I'm not sure - but St Pauls is a regular venue for broadcasts, and the BBC - at that time - had an in-house Outside Broadcast resources department (*) and would have been very familiar with how to set-up and rig for a broadcast at that venue. There will almost certainly have been a camera plan from a previous occasion that could be used as a model - and modified if need be.

Impressive - and hard work - but not unheard of. The BBC were - and are - quite good at this kind of thing.

(*) And to be fair even though the BBC no longer has an in-house OB dept, they still have a talented team of in-house and freelancers, and the third party resource providers they now work with are excellent.
NG
noggin Founding member

Freesports

It's there on Freeview Channel 95, but doesn't appear to be in the Sky EPG yet (at least for a London Sky sub)

You can add it via ADD CHANNELS on a Sky box - 11.426 V 27.5 5/6 and it appears as channel name "52556" - which you can then via via OTHER CHANNELS.

Both versions are dismally poor picture quality (Local TV bad...)
NG
noggin Founding member

20 years since the death of Princess Diana



Anecdotally, this is a factor of changing perception?

I can recall my first (UK) exposure to HDTV. It was from a Sky+HD box about 12 years ago. As well as an output into a projector there was UHF PAL into the co-ax distribution. When the thing was fed into a 4:3 fairly modern CRT TV, my initial reaction was to think: "Wow, this is how TV used to look!"

So, only anecdotally. But, UK analog TV did seem to degrade from the '70s to the '00s. I don't doubt that this was actually my perception, but it may also have been the transition from well maintained and calibrated thermionic based electronics to chip based stuff with (elementary) firmware processing and multiple compromises.


If anything transistors and ICs definitely improved things... I remember valve TVs looking pretty dodgy. The pictures you got from a decent IC-based set in the mid-80s were definitely better than those you got from valve-based TVs.

The highest quality pictures you could see as a domestic viewer in the UK were usually BBC One and BBC Two off-air from Crystal Palace. When you saw live programmes, particularly high quality UK shows, on those transmissions they were usually very good indeed. Wimbledon in particular could look incredible. Other transmitters were never quite as good as CP as the distribution path knocked the edges off...

If you avoided shows that had been fed over satellite, recorded to 1" VT, or fed via a complex microwave path, or fed through lower quality synchronisers - you could get very good 4:3 pictures.

The rot set in once digital compression arrived in production, and when TVs started doing digital frame-store based processing (often only 6 bit...)

The early DVB-T/DVB-S SD MPEG2 stuff actually looked pretty good - as bit rates were pretty high. The first SD MPEG2 DVB-S channels I watched were using 8-10Mbs bitrates...

Quote:


Even so, component HD digital video down-converted and passed through the PAL encoder of an early (Thompson?) Sky+HD box didn't look too bad.



Well by then the SD digital compression was terrible - compare off-air recordings from BBC One / BBC Choice in the early 00s to those of 2006 and you'll see a massive increase in compression artefacts.

HD downconverted to SD at home would by then look a lot better than the SD broadcast.


Quote:

(Strweph I'm getting old.... reminiscences on early HD! Huh?)


That's NOT early HD... Early HD would be c.1990... That's around the time I first saw HD stuff - both the Japanese HiVision and European Eureka 1250 stuff. I even remember seeing 3D HD in Brighton at IBC in a cinema around that time...
paul_hadley, bilky asko and UKnews gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

20 years since the death of Princess Diana


There must be a whole generation that now think all 80s and 90s TV was as crap as that when originally broadcast (which it certainly wasn't)

I've heard the same thing by those who remember 405 line TV, it never looks as good as it did originally (though of course there wasn't any aspect ratio conversion involved)


The main reason for that is almost all the 405 line TV we see has been archived film recordings - where the video was tele-recorded onto film, rather than a VT copy standards converted from the 405 VT recordings to a 625 VT format.

As a result you see terrible resolution, film artefacts, and half the motion rendition. Proper 405 line B&W VT from decent cameras didn't look massively different to 625 line B&W VT - particularly on the screen sizes typical of the era.
DE88, Spencer and UKnews gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

New Bake Off line up confirmed

https://twitter.com/overnightstv/status/902842628919709697 Has a breakdown.

You can see the huge drops during the ad breaks, but the breaks all rated over 5m.
NG
noggin Founding member

Fox News removed from Sky


TRT World is an impressive new channel. But you never really hear about the increasing secularisation of Turkey, one of the key founding blocks of the nation upon formation.


Err - isn't it the decreasing secularisation that is the issue in Turkey, with an increasing strength of religious institutions, and a dilution of secular principles ?
NG
noggin Founding member

Fox News removed from Sky


As to how much it costs, the content that was seen on the FOX Extra segments obviously weren't produced for nothing, but they were generally pretty cheaply produced. The original weather sequence was literally a constantly running computer so would probably have been cheaper overall.


I'm guessing compliance must also have been a cost - or at least an annoyance to the US teams...

Fox News had to comply with Ofcom rules and UK broadcast law (hence them coming off-air completely during the election voting window) and have had a number of Ofcom complaints upheld against them for various breaches.

I'd assumed someone in the Fox News or Sky hierarchy had to at least keep a weather eye on those issues daily - which would not have been zero cost?
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News: Presenters & Rotas


And I think was replaced in that slot by Chris Eakin?


Not initially - Chris was still on Breakfast I think (with Sarah Montague and David Robertson - that was one of the few 7 days a week shifts, not 5, so had 3 regular presenters rather than 2)

Initially Huw Edwards and George Alagiah covered for reasonably lengthy periods ISTR.

From memory :

0600-0900 Breakfast - David, Sarah, Chris
0900-1200 Mornings - Jackie Hardgrave, Ben Geoghegan (Jackie quite often didn't do Fridays - Anastasia Cooke was a regular)
1200-1600 Afternoons - Krishnan, Val
1600-1900 "Drive" - Gavin Esler, Sian Williams (Though not sure a TV station segment can be called 'Drive')
1900-2300? Evening - Matthew Amroliwala OR Kate Garraway (!) (Single headed)
2300-0100 Late evening - Christopher Price

Weekends had Peter Allen, Jane Hill, Sybil Ruscoe, Roger Black, Neil Webb, Gideon Coe, Shahnaz Pakravan and quite a few others.

Sorry - very off topic and I'm not one for a rota thread - but we are approaching the 20th anniversary of launch...

Wasn't it Bill Turnbull who took over the 1200-1600 shift with Valerie Sanderson? I certainly recall Bill being a regular with Valerie in 2000/2001. Didn't Chris Eakin take over after Bill left permanently for Breakfast?


Bill took on the shift permanently after both Huw and George had reasonably long stints with Val ISTR. Krishnan left before the Nov 1998 move to N8 I think.
NG
noggin Founding member

Len Goodman's Partners in Rhyme

I was going to say, excessive editing can give the impression of a canned audience. They might also "enhance" audience sound with the canned stuff. It's a cheap and nasty way to cover clunky edits.


No real need to use 'canned' stuff - you just use some from somewhere else in the recording (or the warm up...)
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards


I seem to remember that was during a period where they wanted more high profile presenters anchoring BBC News 24 during peak times. I know Sophie Raworth, Kate Silverton, Mishal Hussain and Huw Edwards fronted shifts on the News channel but I don't think George Alagiah and Fiona Bruce ever have.


When the channel was BBC News 24, George did a reasonable stint co-presenting the 1200-1600 slot, as did Huw Edwards. This was prior to both of them being main BBC One presenters though.