noggin's posts, page 232

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NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Riaz posted:
VMPhil posted:
Do many people want pseudo stereo in those instances though?


Unknown.

Quote:
It was popular for a time in the 60s, particularly in America where Capitol Records had their Duophonic ‘reprocessed stereo’ system, but has gone out of fashion since then.


Some technologies ebb and flow. The rise in the number of people digitising old video material over the past 10 or so years has revived an interest in pseudo stereo. There have been several pseudo stereo circuits designed and built for A Level electronics analogue circuit projects in recent years. Pseudo stereo can also be implemented in DSP if transistors are not to your taste.

Audio really can be a shadowy underworld of electronics because the end product is so subjective.


Have no problem with it as an end-user option - just like the hilarious 'sounds like its in a cathedral' modes you can get on 5.1 systems. Inflicting it on the listener with no recourse to hearing it unmolested is a different matter.

There are no major issues with mixing stereo and mono content in a show or on a station, and pseudo stereo is close to universally terrible. You get no stereo image to speak of, just a nasty, usually phasey, 'diffuse' sound.
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Markymark posted:
bilky asko posted:
I wonder what percentage of people actually hear broadcast surround sound.
The constant dropouts I get with it on Sky, along with annoying gaps when it switches to and from stereo, means that I have it disabled from the Sky box.
Considering how popular sound bars are, I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.1 broadcast audience in this country is tiny.


The best 5.1 audio I experience is from American drama, either via C4 HD, or Netflix

As mentioned SCD was in 5.1, and it was a bit of a curate's egg quality wise, perhaps why it's been totally dropped now.

BBC 1's Doctor Foster was in 5.1, and that was awful in places.


Yep - by doing less of it we get even less experience and the quality drops. You look at Sweden - and most of the SVT drama, and lots of their entertainment shows, are 5.1. It's become the norm for high-end stuff on SVT.

I'm guessing UK drama is moving to 5.1 because of the requirement for Amazon and Netflix co-pro or re-sales, and it being expected?
NG
noggin Founding member

Ofcom tells BBC to show more UK-made programmes

623058 posted:
I'm confused what programmes in peak times are imports? It's like saying to a non smoker no smoking here. I think the last import on BBC one was late nights flims, while BBC two was that O. J. Simpson drama. Also Does any of Jeremy vine show cover peak times? if not there might have to move him.


I think the repeat aspect is more significant than the non-UK aspect - though BBC Four shows (thankfully) a lot of imported European drama.
NG
noggin Founding member

This Morning

NorthTonight posted:
Reece24 posted:
Whataday posted:
They've started using break stings which use an aerial shot of the Thames/South Bank, presumably shot by a drone.


They've been used for a few months. I remember them saying Sarah Greene helped film/ had relations to the person who filmed them from a helicopter.


I believe the company that films aerial films belongs / belonged to Sarah and her late husband.


Flying TV - one of only a couple of broadcast hellcopter operators (Arena Aviation is the other that springs to mind) was run by Mike Smith, and his wife Sarah. Sarah has since taken over the running of the company, after Mike passed away, I believe.
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

davidhorman posted:
noggin posted:

AIUI some pseudo-stereo processing also reduced the quality of the mono signal - which was also the reason the BBC didn't do Dolby Surround.


So now we (occasionally) get the digital equivalent instead, which is 5.1 mixes being downmixed to 2.0 and coming out with roaming volume levels (on some boxes) or hard-to-hear dialogue...


We are massively suffering in the UK from 5.1 being a niche.

There is limited experience of it throughout the production and broadcast chain - and it is reducing yet further now that Strictly is stereo. In other countries, 5.1 is the norm...
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Riaz posted:
I'm surprised that the BBC with their longstanding presence in radio broadcasting had not dabbled about with them.


I'm not - it's like colourising black and white video. A basically pointless exercise for no real gain. If people want it, optionally, in their receiver processing, that's one thing, imposing it on everyone? I can see why the BBC would think it a pointless thing to do, and a deflection on moving forward with stereo production.

AIUI some pseudo-stereo processing also reduced the quality of the mono signal - which was also the reason the BBC didn't do Dolby Surround.
Markymark and UKnews gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Riaz posted:
noggin posted:
I guess that's understandable since NICAM was a European standard, and it wasn't universally adopted across Europe for that matter.


There were probably many factors at play. Japanese manufacturers seemed to wait until NICAM was officially launched before making sets with NICAM decoders. Bear in mind that many Japanese sets from the 1980s to the early 2000s were manufactured in the UK so they were hardly dealing with NICAM from thousands of miles away.

Yep - I'm aware that Japanese-brand TVs were manufactured in the UK (Sony still have a manufacturing operation in Wales, now well known for manufacturing Raspberry Pi computers)

What isn't so clear is whether the sets made in the UK were designed in the UK, rather than just being built here, and whether the country-specific features were dictated by UK teams, or decided by Europe-wide teams, or by teams in Japan. Manufacturing isn't the same as design.

Quote:

There could be parallels with Teletext in the US where Japanese manufacturers did not include Teletext decoders as standard apart from on some high end sets also sold in Canada.


I think that was a different situation as North America trialled at least three different flavours of teletext - and there wasn't a clear market leader. At least with NICAM there was only ever one UK stereo standard to consider- you just had to decide whether it was definitely going to be a public success (not whether it would be transmitted or not)

The 525 version of WST (which was used by TBS and supported by some sets in the US) hadn't hit anything like critical mass, and none of the major groups had really bought into it - unlike NICAM which prior to official service-start, was clearly going to be universal in the UK. A 525 version of the French non-WST system, Antiope, was trialled by CBS/NBC and PBS in LA, and there was a third system called NABTS (which I believe was the only standard considered and used in Canada).

With no clear leader in the US I can see why Japanese manufacturers adopted a wait and see approach.

Ironically analogue stereo was what effectively killed US teletext, as US TV set manufacturers next generation sets which added stereo support, removed teletext support.
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Riaz posted:
Japanese manufacturers seemed to slightly lag behind European manufacturers when it came to stereo sets and very few models predate the public launch of NICAM or were not fitted with a NICAM decoder. The Sony Profeel was an exception.


I guess that's understandable since NICAM was a European standard, and it wasn't universally adopted across Europe for that matter.

There was no guarantee it was going to be the success it was.
NG
noggin Founding member

Good Morning Britain

Ben Shatliff posted:
BroadcastWales posted:
Aaron_2015 posted:
They tried something a bit different at the desk at around 6:20 this morning. Charlotte disappeared, Piers and Susanna shifted over to the left of the desk and they had three guests around the right of the desk. It all looked a bit ridiculous when you consider that they have a perfectly good sofa.

It does make me wonder when they move to Television Centre are they going to get rid of the sofa and present the whole show from the desk. It's interesting that they are now using the desk as much if not more than the 2014 launch format.



Let’s be honest with ourselves; who is the sofa really for? The presenters and guests are some small number of viewers who think it should all be done on a sofa. By the way not meaning anyone on here with this comment I am meaning the so called demographics they listen to when making changes.

I personally think there is no need for a sofa at all. Working from the desk is much better in both professionalism and the look and feel of the programme.

I agree maybe when moving to BBC Studios they probably will just have a desk and when the new ITV Studios opens again no Sofa but a possible complete new look programme.


It's very simple.

Desk presentation is well suited to discussions with other TV professionals, reporters and people used to being on the TV (like MPs, 'Experts' etc.)

Sofa presentation is better suited to 'real people' interviews, where you are talking to people who are not used to being in a TV studio. It's a less confrontational environment, and puts people at their ease more.

You can do serious from a sofa (as Breakfast demonstrates) - but it is trickier to do a comfortable interview with nervous members of the public at a desk. (Not impossible - just not as easy, and you probably won't get as good a result if people are less at ease)
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
I was expecting you to say that everybody in the broadcast community knew that they should have been called RX not TX Smile


I can remember the technical journalist Barry Fox quzzing I think then BBC DG Micheal Checkland over the Beeb's plans for NICAM, and Checkland thinking it was the name of a Japanese consumer electronics manufacturer !


Barry Fox never did himself any favours in those kind of interviews though. I remember stumbling into him at a number of broadcast exhibitions in the late-80s / early-90s and being rather unimpressed at his approach.
NG
noggin Founding member

W1A

davidhorman posted:
Whitnall posted:
People must get annoyed if they keep being chucked out of office space to film this?


That's what Syncopatico's for.


In reality known as Condeco...
NG
noggin Founding member

Early days of NICAM Stereo

Riaz posted:
A NICAM PCB also existed for stereo versions of the Ferguson TX100 but I'm not sure if they were officially produced as an upgrade or only manufactured in small quantities. Even top of the range TX100 originally had SCART sockets in the form of an aftermarket PCB.


The TX-series (along with most Ferguson sets) were a bit of a joke in the UK broadcast community. Everyone in that industry seemed to buy Sony or Philips sets.