noggin's posts, page 219

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NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

deejay posted:
In this example for the Swedish Eurovision selection show, the Director is calling the shots and the Vision Mixer cutting along simply as a standby for CuePilot. They do a staggeringly good job given the number of very fast cuts and DVEs in this particular camera script.
https://vimeo.com/159124171


Yep - but all the director is actually doing is repeating what the CuePilot screen says, which cameras also see on either the iOS app or their reverse vision feed on a second viewfinder, so not hugely a backup. He's not following a paper script by the look of it. If the CuePilot system fell over, cameras and director wouldn't be able to do that. It's only really a backup if the mixer editor control link fell over.

AIUI when they used CuePilot initially for Melodifestivalen the director and PA said nothing during the music, and everyone felt it was a bit strange, so the director and PA effectively ghost call the CuePilot screen.

One of the main reasons CuePilot is used in Sweden and Denmark, is that unlike the UK and Norway, they have no real history of scripted music cut to beats and bars, and have historically either busked, or scripted to seconds. It was partially developed for Denmark's X factor, as with no history of music scripting and breakdown they were finding it very difficult to match the quality of the UK original's music production AIUI.
Last edited by noggin on 10 December 2017 2:22pm
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

Bail posted:
deejay posted:
In this example for the Swedish Eurovision selection show, the Director is calling the shots and the Vision Mixer cutting along simply as a standby for CuePilot. They do a staggeringly good job given the number of very fast cuts and DVEs in this particular camera script.
https://vimeo.com/159124171

If I had that director clicking his fingers in my ears like that I think I'd quit...


Yep - very common in Scandinavian galleries, but definitely frowned upon in the UK...

Partially because it's very annoying on talkback, and also culturally finger-clicking here has a connotation of rudeness.
NG
noggin Founding member

Anglia/East of England News Discussion

lobster posted:
noggin posted:

Like many English regions. The horrific Thomson 1707s (which Millbank and many English regions had, but TVC was never blighted with - but AIUI they aren't hugely different to the 1757s TVC used before they went Sony) can't go soon enough. Their pictures are horrific...


ah... so that's why BBC Look East looks like it's being played out from VHS??


Yep. Truly awful cameras. Millbank also had them until they went HD. Think Leeds and Tunbridge Wells are/were cursed with them too.
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

Hatton Cross posted:
noggin posted:
digipal posted:
They should have an alternate feed that you can watch a behind the scenes simulcast when the final's played out



They did that for a few years - with talkback - in the mid-to-late 00s.


The best one watching the proposed live protest/stunt of the Russian entry tatu back in 2003. Live direction and VM button cutting by the director, and not sticking to the shooting script.


Ah - did the director take over from the vision mixer for that item then?

Quote:

However, with a reliance of Cue Pilot these days, doing the main performance director and vision mixer's heavy lifting for them, watching the control gallery snoop cam feed, may be less exciting/interesting than it should be..


Some of the Swedish directors using CuePilot still call it with the energy they would if directing live... Though they have been parodied on Swedish comedy shows.
NG
noggin Founding member

Anglia/East of England News Discussion

Markymark posted:
noggin posted:


Some studios have been upgraded to Sony HD cameras I believe (running SD) - and they will work with whatever future production model is used.


HSC-300 I think ? Southampton has them (running in SD), as well as Plymouth (in HD). I assume the HD 'DTL' images we often see from BBC 'SD' regions, are HSC-300s running in HD mode feeding to London over a DIRAC codec ?


HSC-300s have the advantage of being triax based - so fit in nicely with existing cabling infrastructure. They are also the 'building standard' camera in NBH, so the BBC probably has/had a good procurement deal with Sony to get them at a decent price?

Don't know if they will have HSC-300s on Newsroom cameras though - they may be a cheaper brick-solution?
NG
noggin Founding member

Anglia/East of England News Discussion

Rkolsen posted:
Markymark posted:
noggin posted:


Some studios have been upgraded to Sony HD cameras I believe (running SD) - and they will work with whatever future production model is used.


HSC-300 I think ? Southampton has them (running in SD), as well as Plymouth (in HD). I assume the HD 'DTL' images we often see from BBC 'SD' regions, are HSC-300s running in HD mode feeding to London over a DIRAC codec ?


Why need a dedicated camera. Why not just hook up an ENG camcorder with an HD-SDI output?


Multiple ENG cameras always end up turning into Frankencameras once you implement remote tally, racking (aka paint/shading), reverse vision, prompter feeds and then add a fibre or triax conversion (most - probably all - BBC English regions have triax equipped studios)

Sure you can make them work - but you don't want to have to set-up that kind of build every day - so you'd end up buying PSC cameras and adaptors - which probably won't deliver much in savings, but will cause you more points of failure.

If you're thinking of taking the cameras out on the road during the day - that's probably not hugely viable when you have bulletins at 1330, 1830 and 2230 and regions as big as the BBC do (you can be driving hours each way to a shoot). Add into that the deep joy of having to lock off peds, dismantle and then rebuild a camera (even worse if you are using Radamec/Shotoku PTZ mountings) then it doesn't really make much sense. Then when you have to do pre-records it gets even more complex. (Sorry we can't do Sunday Politics opt-out recording on Friday as all our cameras are out shooting PSC?)
NG
noggin Founding member

Anglia/East of England News Discussion

all new Phil posted:
Why would an upgrade be outdated in 12 months?


Because the entire BBC One opt-ing infrastructure is changing, and it's entirely possible that the English regions will be moving to remote IP production.
harshy and all new Phil gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

Earlie37 posted:
As 2011 in Dusseldorf proved, you can have a huge LED wall but it doesn't always come across that well on camera. Many songs lacked perspective or definition because the camera didn't have much to focus on and many of the acts looked a bit 'lost'.

Düsseldorf and Vienna both suffered hugely from being shot 'long lens' too much. You need cameras closer to performers to generate a sense of intimacy and connection. Moving cameras with foreground parallax also gives you some more interesting coverage.
Quote:

Also, despite hours of rehearsals of shots, many still suffered from dreadful moire/motion effects because it was almost impossible to prevent. To give DR credit in 2014, I thought their combination of LED, projection and lighting was rather creative and did give a break from the usual effect that would then be seen on screen.

Yep - the 2013 LED-free year (all projection in Malmö) and 2014 were both very interesting watches and covered creatively.
Quote:

The only thing that is hard to tell so far from that render is whether there isn't an LED wall or that particular set up demonstrates lights installed behind an LED wall that shine through when it is off/black. I'm hoping that it isn't and it's just lighting back there. We know that Portugal are keen to make this a very economical Eurovision. Although prices have plummeted, LED still isn't that cheap so hopefully they're not using it to save on the stage cost. As already mentioned, Oslo in 2010 showed that the use of clever LED lighting and stage artistry can give a beautiful effect on screen without the need for a huge LED curtain.


Ola Melzig is on the record as saying this is an LED & Projection-screen-free year.

Oslo was great because they used different staging elements to generate lots of depth. LED screens can be acres of dull flatness...
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

digipal posted:
They should have an alternate feed that you can watch a behind the scenes simulcast when the final's played out



They did that for a few years - with talkback - in the mid-to-late 00s.
NG
noggin Founding member

Eurovision 2018

deejay posted:
Possibly not, though it is a pretty good song in its own right. That performance and staging were very well integrated, although the camera angles in the ESC itself weren’t quite as good as in melodifestivalen. I suppose there’ll be nothing to stop delegations wanting video screens but maybe they’ll have to provide them themselves?


Yep - something like Russia's 2016 performance - which was a standalone prop with projection onto a rubber screen would potentially be possible (if projection can be arranged). Similarly the UK's 2017 performance, which had integrated LED screens with the mirrors should still be feasible.
NG
noggin Founding member

AppleTV 4K and Apple Video Services.

DVB Cornwall posted:
The fabled AppleTV wrapper app has appeared today. Not sure it adds much to the experienced user, the new one maybe. Useful to be able to launch different content from the same 'port' though.


Does make the Apple TV feel more like a "TV" platform though...
NG
noggin Founding member

Anglia/East of England News Discussion

dosxuk posted:
When I was up at Leeds the other month their lighting desk was only running thanks to a bodge with a PC power supply sat on top of it. There's a shortage of quality new kit country wide. The impression I've had is that everyone knows the regions need investment, but nobody wants to sign off on an upgrade which will be outdated in 12 months.


Yep - the experience of Plymouth confirmed that upgrading every region (which would have to be to HD) can't follow the Plymouth model.

As a result they are delaying upgrades (though I believe there is a stop-gap solution to replace dying Astons if need be) in the hope that a new opt-out model and new IP (semi-remote production) will be feasible and cost-effective. Effectively VILOR for TV...

But yes - many BBC English regions (other than Salford, Plymouth and London) are pretty much running on fumes. I've seen Thomson cameras with cheap LCD monitors stuck on to replace failed CRT viewfinders, and all sorts of bodges to keep kit running.

Some studios have been upgraded to Sony HD cameras I believe (running SD) - and they will work with whatever future production model is used.