noggin's posts, page 208

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NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3


LWT used a couple of syncs. Questech something or others and Quantel DFS 1751's. The ITN would have had a local Quantel in circuit given the era.

Someone was out in the Europe somewhere covering football match with a 1751 which was pretty reliable apart from one of the input (or output) locking loops that used a particular diode that would fail due to heat eventually. When this chap went abroad with one he took a diode with him.

Out at the broadcast centre there were some Swiss chaps looking glumly at a 1751 synchroniser that was not working - unlocked pictures. The chap casually produced the diode from his trouser pocket, gave it to the Swiss chaps and said - you need one of these. The Swiss chaps changed the diode and of course it cured the fault. Great engineer, I would have loved to have been there!


Quantel wanted to stop making the 1751s years before they were actually able to, as they kept getting orders for them (including the Quantel Link deal to supply the BBC with their Type VIII trucks). Sourcing PSUs got tricky ISTR. They had the major advantage of having a GIGO mode (Garbage In Garbage Out) which is exactly what you want on a dodgy analogue RF camera link, not a freeze...

Noisy fans ISTR...


I think I remember the PSU's, a long pcb about 3 inches wide with outsourced (ie bought in) convertor modules?

What I do remember is that it had two operational 'What to do if the input signal fails or is crappy'. One was to permanently freeze the output signal to be the last known good frame, but wasn't up to much as the freeze was like you had picked the picture up with a cloth and were lightly polishing it - not a good description! I think of it as the frozen picture gently oscillating in a gentle circular fashion like the motion you would get if you were polishing a window plane. The other mode as I recall was to 'go to black' for the duration of the crappy signal, but I think it was oversensitive and was not used. I think I may not be remembering that too correctly?

Edit: Yes - noisy fans and likely to fail over time with attendant problems - one for 'routine maintenance". I recall now there were some 9 bit Marconi 1U syncs - there were excellent, really good. Perhaps they benefitted from being a bit late on the scene.


I wonder if the BBC had modified 1751s then? The most important thing was that they passed through synchronised garbage! It's why they were used for RF cameras (and thus installed in most larger OB trucks that could be expected to use RF cams)
NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3


I sort of presumed they were being shot on PetoScott cameras which again I also sort of presumed fed into the Philips range of cameras - any thoughts?


Ha ha! In reality the Peto Scott cameras didn't really exist. It was a badge engineering job really.

The Peto Scott cameras were effectively Phiips LDK3s, but because they were bought from Peto Scott they were 'British'... I'm sure there were BBC modifications and there were both PC60 and PC80 models - but AIUI they were effectively LDK3s. SVT in Sweden used their LDK3s well into the 80s...

They generated nice pictures - but had hefty (dual in some cases?) multicore cables.

Have a feeling the first colour handhelds the BBC had - the Philips Minicam (developed by Philips Norelco in the US ISTR) - were re-badged as Pye for the same reason.
NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3


Not a camera I ever worked on, But I have to say those Philips cameras always seemed to produce 'lovely' pictures to my eye.


The very early LDK5s delivered stonkingly good pictures for a tubed camera of that era. The first models had very optimised aperture correction circuits that really delivered clean, sharp pictures, but avoided looking 'French'...

They also had the huge advantage of being triax...
NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3

Synchronisers still didn't have the best reputations in the 80s did they though - as they knocked the edges off the pictures quite badly in some cases - so I can understand the LWT non-sync cut.


LWT used a couple of syncs. Questech something or others and Quantel DFS 1751's. The ITN would have had a local Quantel in circuit given the era.

Someone was out in the Europe somewhere covering football match with a 1751 which was pretty reliable apart from one of the input (or output) locking loops that used a particular diode that would fail due to heat eventually. When this chap went abroad with one he took a diode with him.

Out at the broadcast centre there were some Swiss chaps looking glumly at a 1751 synchroniser that was not working - unlocked pictures. The chap casually produced the diode from his trouser pocket, gave it to the Swiss chaps and said - you need one of these. The Swiss chaps changed the diode and of course it cured the fault. Great engineer, I would have loved to have been there!


Quantel wanted to stop making the 1751s years before they were actually able to, as they kept getting orders for them (including the Quantel Link deal to supply the BBC with their Type VIII trucks). Sourcing PSUs got tricky ISTR. They had the major advantage of having a GIGO mode (Garbage In Garbage Out) which is exactly what you want on a dodgy analogue RF camera link, not a freeze...

Noisy fans ISTR...
NG
noggin Founding member

Feeds to Irish Channels

Slightly unrelated but factual none the less, The Big Brother highlights shows are played out live from the MCR onsite just like a live show, presumably because they edit so close to TX time.

This isn't uncommon - quite a lot of short-turnaround sport reversions are played from EVS to TX because the file wouldn't make it to server on time.


Yes - and even if Playout offer a line recording facility there are often limits to the turnaround time. At one point I believe Red Bee wanted 3x duration of your show clear at the end of the line feed before the TX point. (So a 30 minutes show had to finish feeding 90 minutes before TX)

It's often easier to keep a skeleton crew on to TX a pre-record as a 'live play-in' as a result.
NG
noggin Founding member

Winter Olympics 2018

What's on TV advising extra coverage on Eurosport 3, 4 and 5 but only stating Virgin numbers for them (552-4).

Well of course, extra channels for Virgin Media - the old Liberty Global mothership working well, there.

Suppose us plebs with Sky will just have to do with Eurosport 1 & 2 and the BBC?


Be interesting to see how they handle Sky... Fingers crossed they appear. Be nice not to have to watch the poor quality Eurosport Player streams.
NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3

Synchronisers still didn't have the best reputations in the 80s did they though - as they knocked the edges off the pictures quite badly in some cases - so I can understand the LWT non-sync cut.


Yes. I remember TVS were using them 1983ish, I complained to the IBA about the impairment they were introducing. Funnily enough a year later I ended up working for a company where my boss was the bloke
that had been called into TVS to sort out his frame syncs because of the impairments. (You could see a faint 'grid' of 'blacker than black' dots )


They had a dreadful reputation in the early days at the BBC. They were deemed useful for synchronising radio cameras etc. - but not seen as a great way of permanently handling incoming circuits to Pres.

ISTR being told that the cleanest pictures you'd ever see on Net 1 were Wimbledon off-air from Crystal Palace before a synchroniser was in the way. (The LDK5s used by BBC OBs delivered far better quality pictures than the Links at TVC - and the EMIs if we're being honest...)
NG
noggin Founding member

Winter Olympics 2018

a516 posted:


I think anyone stating that DVB-T2 in Germany is 'all HD' when it has 540p services is being a bit disingenuous...

Tell that freenet TV... https://www.freenet.tv/programme

Ah - but you can read that as "All top channels in HD" not "All channels in HD"... (You could argue QVC, HSE24 and Bibel TV aren't 'Top Channels' - and they also aren't in the Freenet subscription block, they're in the FTA block...)

Quote:

But then HD+, the satellite counterpart, pretends its a provider of free TV channels... http://www.freetva.tv/about/hdplus/


Semantics I guess. They are providing Free TV in HD, but not for free. The channels that they provide are Free in SD... (So they could argue that they are proving 'Free TV' (i.e. services that are Free rather than pay-TV in SD) in HD. Sky could say the same about ITV2-4HD and All4HD, E4HD, More4HD, Film4HD etc.)
NG
noggin Founding member

Classic ITN presentation Take 3

Synchronisers still didn't have the best reputations in the 80s did they though - as they knocked the edges off the pictures quite badly in some cases - so I can understand the LWT non-sync cut.
NG
noggin Founding member

Playing .mkv files on my TV

I was hoping there was some simple hardware that could do this?

Thank you

Richard


There are lots of simple hardware solutions - but would need to check the specific formats of the files you want to play.

MediaInfo (available for Mac and Windows) will tell you more than enough about the files - if you post those details here we can be more specific in our recommendations. (It will tell us audio and video codecs etc.)
NG
noggin Founding member

Winter Olympics 2018

a516 posted:

What they call qHD channels are carried by freenet (Media Broadcast), but aren't part of the freenet subscription package. As you can see from this press release, they get still marketed under the HD umbrella, https://www.infosat.de/digital-tv/dvb-t2-hd-zwei-privatsender-neu-im-portfolio , with some outlets acknowledging they're not Full HD but qHD in their reporting. You will note from Digital Bitrate that the channels have HD in their name.


Anyone describing 960x540 as 'HD' is being deceptive...

They aren't 1080/50p (as now used on DVB-T2 for HD services in Germany), they aren't 1080/50i, they aren't 720/50p (as used on DSat for many German HD services).

960x540/50p is an SD-equivalent format - designed to remove the requirement to handle interlaced 576i, and also to avoid the use of non-square pixels. 540p is also a format that allows a nice downconversion from 1080i/p.

Even the 'HD Ready' licensing requires a minimum of 720 display lines to describe a display as 'HD'...

I think anyone stating that DVB-T2 in Germany is 'all HD' when it has 540p services is being a bit disingenuous...
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NG
noggin Founding member

Winter Olympics 2018


I wouldn't be surprised if Eurosport offered them on the Eurosport Player?


The announced that "The interactive Eurosport Player will be the only place fans can watch every minute, every athlete and every sport... ". https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017/11/20/key-olympics-role-for-premium-eurosport-player/
So I'd say yes they will put the OBS feeds on the Eurosport player, as they are not going to do coverage for every single event. But I'm also surprised that they don't seem to utilise the Eurosport 360 Red Button service they have on soem pay-TV services in Europe (like Sky in Germany and Canalsat in France).

Quote:
Interesting that the ARD/ZDF deal in Germany is quite different to the UK deal (the BBC had a stronger hand in some ways as they had exclusive 2018 and 2020 rights and bartered them with Discovery who had exclusive 2022 and 2024 rights)


That, and in the UK they had to sell the 2022 and 2024 rights to a terestrial channel because of the Ofcom Crown Jewel rules, anyway.

Germany's Crown Jewel rules on the other hand only say that the channel broadcasting has to be available to two thirds of all households, which Eurosport 1, DMAX and TLC easily manage (all three are FTA on satellite and cable, which already gives them 85% availability).
So they acually could have done it exclusivly and even anounced coverage plans back in 2016 for them broadcating it alone, without ARD/ZDF (which also incorperated DMAX as a third channel). *https://twitter.com/Eurosport_DE/status/864424951805358082/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurosport.de%2Folympia%2Folympia-bei-eurosport-die-umfangreichste-berichterstattung-aller-zeiten_sto6168122%2Fstory.shtml

I personally think Germany actually profits from Eurosport having some exclusice rights, as the ARD/ZDF coverage has acutally gone more NBC-like in the last years sadly, with tons of human interest stories, tape delay, to much studio chit-chat and simply far too little actual live sport (if you for example compare it to the BBC coverage). I just hope Discovery won't overdo it with the commercials and will do coverage as great as the one they did in 2012 (where they had the rights for the las time here and actually won the German TV Awards for the best sports coverage of the year).
Also pressure from the VPRT (the lobby organisation of the German commercial channels) forced ARD/ZDF to move the extra coverage, which happens outside the main channels, to online only since 2012. And even there it was limited to 6 streams tops.
Now you have 2 chanels (sometimes 3) broadcasting on regular TV and for every body who want'S more there is Eurosport PLayer which only costs 7€ for a month.


Just wish Eurosport player was 50Hz not 25Hz - or is it 50Hz in Germany. Once you've seen 50Hz iPlayer and BBC Sport online streams - the 25Hz judderfest that is Eurosport on Amazon is unwatchable...
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