NG
noggin
Founding member
NG
But they will both almost certainly be set-standing - so two sets permanently set in the same studio - probably opposite each other - so you can see why a bigger studio makes sense.
They are taking what is currently made in 3 studios (GMB's, Lorraine/Loose Women's and This Morning's) and putting it into 2 at TV Centre?
noggin
Founding member
ITV abandons the South Bank
Studio 5 at TLS is just over 2,000sq ft. TC3 is 8,000. If GMB and This Morning are the only shows coming from this studio, it's looking like their sets are gonna be massive compared to just now.
But they will both almost certainly be set-standing - so two sets permanently set in the same studio - probably opposite each other - so you can see why a bigger studio makes sense.
They are taking what is currently made in 3 studios (GMB's, Lorraine/Loose Women's and This Morning's) and putting it into 2 at TV Centre?
NG
Cueing between venues is - I think - now likely to be handled locally in Korea using a Calrec remote production audio solution. In Sochi the system was more 'news like' with everything coming through in and out of Salford, and no additional infrastructure at the remote end to assist. This Calrec remote system probably integrates with the Calrec sound desks in the UK creating a distributed 'desk' with processing at both ends (reducing latency between remote sources)
Remote production is becoming far more common now (even though the BBC has effectively been doing it at the Winter Olympics for many years) so better solutions are being found.
Also - it's likely that low latency circuits - both between venues (suspect uncompressed SMPTE 2022-6 may be being used over 10Gbs connections) and the IBC and between South Korea and the UK (suspect JPEG 2000 over IP - which is frame not GOP based) - are being used this time - whereas in Sochi they may have been more compressed (and thus more delayed)
noggin
Founding member
Winter Olympics 2018
What is this new cueing system the Beeb have? The delays from the round trip to Salford and back were the worst part of Sochi for me.
Cueing between venues is - I think - now likely to be handled locally in Korea using a Calrec remote production audio solution. In Sochi the system was more 'news like' with everything coming through in and out of Salford, and no additional infrastructure at the remote end to assist. This Calrec remote system probably integrates with the Calrec sound desks in the UK creating a distributed 'desk' with processing at both ends (reducing latency between remote sources)
Remote production is becoming far more common now (even though the BBC has effectively been doing it at the Winter Olympics for many years) so better solutions are being found.
Also - it's likely that low latency circuits - both between venues (suspect uncompressed SMPTE 2022-6 may be being used over 10Gbs connections) and the IBC and between South Korea and the UK (suspect JPEG 2000 over IP - which is frame not GOP based) - are being used this time - whereas in Sochi they may have been more compressed (and thus more delayed)
NG
I guess general entertainment shows made at TLS will be looking to BBC Studioworks at BBC Elstree/Elstree Film studios and TV Centre TC1, Pinewood, Riverside (when it re-opens) in Hammersmith, Maidstone Studios (where Take Me Out and Later... are recorded), Dock 10 in Salford, BBC Pacific Quay, or OB/Flyaway solutions in spaces like theatres, rehearsal facilities (like LH2) etc.
noggin
Founding member
ITV abandons the South Bank
Where is celeb juice moving to ? Or even next years snt could there go to a thereter?
I guess general entertainment shows made at TLS will be looking to BBC Studioworks at BBC Elstree/Elstree Film studios and TV Centre TC1, Pinewood, Riverside (when it re-opens) in Hammersmith, Maidstone Studios (where Take Me Out and Later... are recorded), Dock 10 in Salford, BBC Pacific Quay, or OB/Flyaway solutions in spaces like theatres, rehearsal facilities (like LH2) etc.
NG
In some ways ITV moving in has solved the set storage problem significantly. With two studios with standing-sets (and just a bit of re-setting between shows) the limitations of storage on-site for entire TC2 and TC3 sized set/strike sets has gone away for a couple of years.
It is possible ITV may try to squeeze other shows into TC2/3 in down time - but given that they will almost certainly want to run with fixed lighting plots for their ITV Daytime shows in there (rather than relighting between shows) , they may not have the re-light time for weekday stuff (unless it's very basic and just a simple re-dress of the same set with people sitting in the same places), and lighting three shows in one space with permanent lighting set-ups, could be tricky (you'll never get the lights you want in the right place for all three).
If I were a betting man I'd expect ITV Sport to use either Timeline's facilities in Stratford, or IMG's in Stockley Park. My money would be on Timeline as they have larger studio spaces.
noggin
Founding member
ITV abandons the South Bank
Set storage was always cited as a problem by those in the industry when they looked at the TC plans. But we are where we are. I think at one point I read that TC2 was effectively going to be used as set storage for TC1/3 but with itv moving in and giving TC2 more work that seems less likely. I’m guessing there’ll be several standing sets in each of TC2 and 3, with perhaps enough storage outside in the remaining dock area for the extra bits and set dressing?
In some ways ITV moving in has solved the set storage problem significantly. With two studios with standing-sets (and just a bit of re-setting between shows) the limitations of storage on-site for entire TC2 and TC3 sized set/strike sets has gone away for a couple of years.
It is possible ITV may try to squeeze other shows into TC2/3 in down time - but given that they will almost certainly want to run with fixed lighting plots for their ITV Daytime shows in there (rather than relighting between shows) , they may not have the re-light time for weekday stuff (unless it's very basic and just a simple re-dress of the same set with people sitting in the same places), and lighting three shows in one space with permanent lighting set-ups, could be tricky (you'll never get the lights you want in the right place for all three).
If I were a betting man I'd expect ITV Sport to use either Timeline's facilities in Stratford, or IMG's in Stockley Park. My money would be on Timeline as they have larger studio spaces.
NG
Slight change of design for Sky Sports F1 today, using the new F1 logo.
I don't believe this logo change occurred today, as I saw it in the Sky Q EPG yesterday whilst checking in the sports section.
Is it not possible that the broadcast outlet and the Sky Q EPG adopted the graphic at different times?
noggin
Founding member
Sky's Branding
Slight change of design for Sky Sports F1 today, using the new F1 logo.
I don't believe this logo change occurred today, as I saw it in the Sky Q EPG yesterday whilst checking in the sports section.
Is it not possible that the broadcast outlet and the Sky Q EPG adopted the graphic at different times?
NG
Did you never watch Daybreak?
Watching the highlights show Clare Balding is presenting at the moment I think Daybreak is definitely worth remembering. The backdrop of Clare's single is basically black with a strip of light... They are doing a good job with what they have to work with - it's not been badly done.
It looks as if there are some LED pixel pars or similar outside clamped to a balcony to give some depth and interest on some shots that would otherwise be totally dead.
Not sure it's a 'warm and welcoming' Breakfast look though...
noggin
Founding member
BBC Breakfast
Now with all the recent speculation/rumour/gossip/innuendo about a refresh, etc. I’m loathe to post this, but... wouldn’t the BBC Winter Olympic studio make a rather interesting studio for Breakfast?
https://tvforum.uk/forums/post1099708#post-1099708
Before anybody asks - I know nothing. It’s an observation. A suggestion.
https://tvforum.uk/forums/post1099708#post-1099708
Before anybody asks - I know nothing. It’s an observation. A suggestion.
Did you never watch Daybreak?
Watching the highlights show Clare Balding is presenting at the moment I think Daybreak is definitely worth remembering. The backdrop of Clare's single is basically black with a strip of light... They are doing a good job with what they have to work with - it's not been badly done.
It looks as if there are some LED pixel pars or similar outside clamped to a balcony to give some depth and interest on some shots that would otherwise be totally dead.
Not sure it's a 'warm and welcoming' Breakfast look though...
NG
If we are talking about the LIVE bug integrated into the Eurosport 1/2 DOGs top right then I think that is a presentation addition for the duration of the show, not a reactive graphic inserted dynamically by the UK control rooms.
Indeed, after all - Sky Sports have LIVE text on all their bugs throughout their live football programmes, including during pre-recorded segments like interviews and features.
A bit different though having the graphic over pre-recorded build up than over the sports action.
As I said previously. In lots of European countries (and Eurosport is a European broadcaster) it is routine for live shows to have a LIVE bug put on their studio or OB output by presentation/playout/MCR for the duration of the programme. They don't take this out for elements of the show that are pre-recorded features, delayed or turned around sporting action or highlights. It's just a different culture.
Eurosport's evening highlights show on Kanal 5 in Sweden is a live show (with two presenters in a great studio in Korea). It broadcasts between 1900-2300 in Sweden (which is 0300-0700 in Korea). There is zero live competition in that time slot AIUI. The whole show has a 'direkt' (Live in Swedish) bug integrated into the Kanal 5 and Olympic logos top right in the channel DOG, throughout the show. It's a thing that lots of broadcasters do. The show is live - it has a live bug.
noggin
Founding member
Winter Olympics 2018
If we are talking about the LIVE bug integrated into the Eurosport 1/2 DOGs top right then I think that is a presentation addition for the duration of the show, not a reactive graphic inserted dynamically by the UK control rooms.
Indeed, after all - Sky Sports have LIVE text on all their bugs throughout their live football programmes, including during pre-recorded segments like interviews and features.
A bit different though having the graphic over pre-recorded build up than over the sports action.
As I said previously. In lots of European countries (and Eurosport is a European broadcaster) it is routine for live shows to have a LIVE bug put on their studio or OB output by presentation/playout/MCR for the duration of the programme. They don't take this out for elements of the show that are pre-recorded features, delayed or turned around sporting action or highlights. It's just a different culture.
Eurosport's evening highlights show on Kanal 5 in Sweden is a live show (with two presenters in a great studio in Korea). It broadcasts between 1900-2300 in Sweden (which is 0300-0700 in Korea). There is zero live competition in that time slot AIUI. The whole show has a 'direkt' (Live in Swedish) bug integrated into the Kanal 5 and Olympic logos top right in the channel DOG, throughout the show. It's a thing that lots of broadcasters do. The show is live - it has a live bug.
NG
The IOC have a central "Olympic Data Feed" system, which is what I believe the graphics get their information from, along with other things such as the website, the app, scoreboards, etc. As this is a general API used by everyone, I suspect it doesn't have broadcast specific metadata such as what the graphics should be doing. I fact I suspect OBS, like most people, have only read access to it, given that scoring information also lives on this system.
Yes - though if the OBS graphics were themselves dynamically triggered from events data that the IOC provided then those triggers may also be available to third party rights holders? (This is just speculation on my part.)
I remember watching World Cup BBC and ITV feeds in parallel and seeing BBC Sport and Host graphics (on the ITV feed) perfectly slaved, so there is historically a way of doing this (and has been for 20 or so years at least). The BBC and ITV at that point both fed match coverage back live or as-live with graphics - one outlet was on-air live, the other recording for later replay (as edited highlights I think)
noggin
Founding member
Winter Olympics 2018
The IOC have a central "Olympic Data Feed" system, which is what I believe the graphics get their information from, along with other things such as the website, the app, scoreboards, etc. As this is a general API used by everyone, I suspect it doesn't have broadcast specific metadata such as what the graphics should be doing. I fact I suspect OBS, like most people, have only read access to it, given that scoring information also lives on this system.
Yes - though if the OBS graphics were themselves dynamically triggered from events data that the IOC provided then those triggers may also be available to third party rights holders? (This is just speculation on my part.)
I remember watching World Cup BBC and ITV feeds in parallel and seeing BBC Sport and Host graphics (on the ITV feed) perfectly slaved, so there is historically a way of doing this (and has been for 20 or so years at least). The BBC and ITV at that point both fed match coverage back live or as-live with graphics - one outlet was on-air live, the other recording for later replay (as edited highlights I think)
NG
Robotic cameras aren't new to Sky News though are they? ISTR that they had robots and remotes on previous sets.
noggin
Founding member
Sky News | General Discussion
One of the disadvantages of using robotic cameras is just now at 1pm, a camera panned back and then wobbled as it stopped in the glass box.
Robotic cameras aren't new to Sky News though are they? ISTR that they had robots and remotes on previous sets.
NG
If we are talking about the LIVE bug integrated into the Eurosport 1/2 DOGs top right then I think that is a presentation addition for the duration of the show, not a reactive graphic inserted dynamically by the UK control rooms.
noggin
Founding member
Winter Olympics 2018
They are usually good at putting up a "highlights" or "earlier" graphic up on Eurosport UK though.
If we are talking about the LIVE bug integrated into the Eurosport 1/2 DOGs top right then I think that is a presentation addition for the duration of the show, not a reactive graphic inserted dynamically by the UK control rooms.
NG
The Eurosport LIVE dog is a channel LIVE dog (very common in Europe) and used to indicate that the programme is live, rather than a repeat. It doesn't mean the content within the show is 100% live (it will stay up over highlights, packages etc.)
noggin
Founding member
Winter Olympics 2018
Eurosport 2 are showing the Luge with a "Live" DOG, but it's the same footage BBC1 were showing about 15 minutes earlier- so not live.
The Eurosport LIVE dog is a channel LIVE dog (very common in Europe) and used to indicate that the programme is live, rather than a repeat. It doesn't mean the content within the show is 100% live (it will stay up over highlights, packages etc.)