noggin's posts, page 184

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NG
noggin Founding member

Broadcasting House, Salford Quays & TVC

JAS84 posted:
Well it won't if it's on at the same time as Coronation Street!


Which gives them a different justification for it not rating Wink
NG
noggin Founding member

Streaming services and their effect on multichannel TV

Interesting you mention ad revenue as obviously that is one route Netflix and Amazon haven't gone down yet, so as far as advertiser's are concerned even with online competition to get your message out to large audiences quickly linear TV still has a huge part to play.


And Commercial catch-up services like ITV Hub and All4 also have embedded commercials.
NG
noggin Founding member

Saturday Night Takeaway 2018


Oh Matron...


Yes - I think the same thing may have happened on the US show last year. Odd that this can happen these days with common font standards and standardised screen pixel sizes (1920x1080 is used by both 59.94i and 50i HD standards), though mistakes with pixel and display aspect ratios do still get made.


Can someone please explain 59.94 fps to me please? I’ve never understood why it isn’t 60 fps. Was it every 60? I thought it was based on the frequency of American electricity systems. But are they 60Hz, or are they actually 59.94Hz too?


In the days of NTSC black and white (yep - unlike PAL, NTSC doesn't just mean a colour standard) - the US standard was 525 lines at precisely 60 fields per second, giving a line-rate of 15.75kHz. This was all well and good and worked fine.

However when they introduced compatible NTSC colour subcarriers in the mid-to-late 50s (*) the subcarrier that carried the colour information had to be linked to the line-rate to make things work nicely (and improve compatibility by reducing subcarrier visibility on B&W sets etc.). At 15.75kHz the chosen subcarrier frequency relationship with the line-rate threatened to interfere with the FM sound carrier at 4.5MHz that System M used for sound (effectively causing buzzing potentially), so they needed to find a way to change the colour subcarrier frequency, which meant altering the line-rate.

As the number of lines was fixed at 525 (that is baked in to the TVs really), the only way of altering the line rate was to subtly change the field-frequency (or frame-frequency). Doing so by a small amount reduced the chances of interference, but kept full compatibility with existing B&W sets (0.06Hz difference was not an issue)

So since then all '60Hz' (**) broadcast TV has been 59.94Hz and almost all film shot for TV (and even not) is shot or transferred at 23.976Hz (***) so that when 3:2 telecine it goes to 59.94Hz.

The irony is that the interference probably wouldn't have happened that much and could probably have been mitigated over time. Because of it we have 1000/1001 frame/field rates and drop-frame timecode...

(*) There was a CBS 405 line incompatible colour system that was briefly introduced into the US that was effective 405/72fps that sent R, G and B colour sequentially to deliver a 24fps colour signal. As it was incompatible it meant you had to simulcast in colour as the B&W receivers couldn't display colour broadcasts. This could use a B&W camera and B&W CRT with spinning discs in front of it (just like some DLP projectors use today) It didn't last, and the RCA compatible system soon replaced it.

(**) The original Japanese HiVision 1125 HD standard (that 1080i used today is largely derived from) WAS 60.00Hz initially and well into the 80s. There were even complex downconverters required to output a 525/59.94Hz signal (they tried to drop frames around cuts etc.). When the US adopted 1125 for HD they adopted a 59.94Hz version of it instead... There are hopes that 4320/120p will be adopted instead of 4320/119.88p...

(***) Some European film is shot and transferred at 24.000Hz as there is no 59.94Hz to worry about. Some European Blu-rays are thus 24.000p rather than 23.976p.
Last edited by noggin on 8 April 2018 2:04pm - 3 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member

Saturday Night Takeaway 2018



Nice finger action. 😉


Oh Matron...


Yes - I think the same thing may have happened on the US show last year. Odd that this can happen these days with common font standards and standardised screen pixel sizes (1920x1080 is used by both 59.94i and 50i HD standards), though mistakes with pixel and display aspect ratios do still get made.
NG
noggin Founding member

Streaming services and their effect on multichannel TV


What channels have really closed completely in recent years? Very few really. Discovery still have their very small channels like DMAX/Discovery Shed/Discovery History/Discovery H&H that rate very badly. Could Discovery end up culling a few? It doesn't seem like they will for the forseable future anyway. The 30+ music channels are still operating.


How many of them air original content commissioned for that specific channel though? All these extra channels are doing are hoovering up some advertising revenue by exploiting a relatively small number of people wanting to watch those shows at the time they stumble into them.

As long as the content is low-cost to repeat (and factual stuff originated the right way can be), and the channels are low-cost to run, even low rating services can still turn a profit. All Discovery are doing is sweating their assets.

Some shows are acquired with a fixed number of broadcasts within a certain period, and in some cases it can be difficult to hit that number if you only have a small number of channels - so you are effectively 'wasting' your rights in that case.
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Breakfast


I did notice at 22:30 last night, 30 seconds worth of the lottery results caption on BBC1, totally static. Just saying.


No - they had the usual animated grey circles in the background (at least on BBC One England HD).


I must have been totally captivated by the audio content in that case ! Wink


Yep - the lottery graphic has an animating background...
NG
noggin Founding member

ITV abandons the South Bank

They've not changed much, except losing most of what was in them. They wouldn't be HD, but presumably the re-edit that we see now is, albeit with some of the original images reused. I assume they took the young looking Graham out when that took place.

The plastic dolls aren't on the set any more are they?


The elements in the titles all still look to be up-scaled SD to my eyes. It's a pity - it's a lovely piece of design and works well for the show in a distinctive way. (Jump often come up with stuff like that.)
NG
noggin Founding member

YouTube Gold

Alright, there's a chance that nobody is going to care about this but me. But it's been on my mind every time I come across this clip.

The titles for Clarkson's chat show in the late 90s. The show is in widescreen but look at the titles - it looks suspiciously to me like the titles were originally 4:3, which have been zoomed/cropped to 14:9 and then they've added artificial borders to fit in with the graphics used on the title sequence itself. (So when it appeared on analogue like this you're not missing anything).

The show was widescreen from the start so they would have been like that from the first episode. I'm wondering if the titles were produced in 4:3 (as this was 1998) before they knew the show was going to be shot in widescreen, so they were forced to modify the titles for 16:9 and this was the easiest option.

Or I'm just way overthinking this and that's how they wanted them to look like.


(Titles at 1:42)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5R1JY81nrw


Looks to me like a design choice rather than a 4:3 rescue job. When 16:9 started you were still designing mainly for 4:3 viewers - so making sure it worked in 14:9 letterbox was definitely your primary task, with the tiny number of 16:9 digital viewers effectively more of an afterthought.
NG
noggin Founding member

Saturday Night Takeaway 2018

Not sure cue dots ever went away for live programmes, but it makes a lot of sense to use them on this show, it's an unambiguous way of making sure the playout suites get the right timings into breaks without the risk of a talkback circuit having different latency to the programme feed and things getting out of sync.


Cue Dots are now not the preferred solution for ITV live shows AIUI. Invisidots or similar are preferred IF they survive the contribution chain. It's also acceptable to have Cue Dots on your reserve feed if you can only insert invisidot data on your main feed (i.e. you only have one invisidot chain)

However given that SNT was 59.94i originated and going via a standards converter to 50i, and I'm not sure I'd want to guarantee an invisidot path from a US truck all the way to Red Bee, I can see why in-vision cue dots were used.
UKnews and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC News | Presenter & Correspondent Reshuffles

AlexS posted:
I read that as Mariko being back in Singapore for Newsday with Kasia in London as normal...

That's possible, though I don't see what the BBC are gaining by sending a Singapore presenter to London for just a single day (or maybe at most two days). Maybe we'll know more at the time though ^_^


Given that Mariko works for the BBC there may be lots of reasons why she is visiting London, not just on-screen presentation ones.
NG
noggin Founding member

BBC Breakfast

B -Team behind the scenes today on BBC Breakfast. They managed to show a viewer's photo incorrectly orientated at 90 degs.

However, in a rather insensitive act, they played a very moving clip from this forthcoming radio programme:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09yy4gb

With a stupid fake 'oscillograph' bouncing up and down with the audio. Crass; WTF do they feel the need to do that (on all audio material now it seems) ?


The audio-visuaisation effect is the BBC News standard way of handling audio-only sources on-screen. It's automated so can be done by anyone at their desktop, rather than requiring an editor and/or designer to be involved. (i.e. it's cheaper)
NG
noggin Founding member

Streaming services and their effect on multichannel TV

TCOTV posted:
There was an article somewhere that said Netflix is more popular with young people than the BBC. I believe BBC 3 should have had an overlap and not just end the channel one day then launch online the next day.


Not sure what you mean - BBC Three had been online for ages when it was linear. The only real change was that the linear channel got pulled, and the commissioning budget dropped hugely (to something like 25% of the previous linear budget?) so that the amount of actual content commissioned for BBC Three audiences was massively reduced.

The real reason most people think the linear channel was pulled was that with the hugely reduced commissioning budget there wouldn't have been enough content to fill a 7 day a week channel from 1900-0100 without it becoming VERY obvious how little there was...