NG
noggin
Founding member
NG
Apart from needing the staff and equipment to replay and comply them.
noggin
Founding member
Wimbledon 2018
Is frustrating how these pop-up streams are limited to live coverage. No reason at all they couldn't show some matches in full after the close of play.
Apart from needing the staff and equipment to replay and comply them.
NG
noggin
Founding member
BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards
Suspect this is just a missing bit of generic script from a running order template. I wonder if this is because the BBC is migrating from ENPS to OpenMedia, and presumably OpenMedia has new templates.
NG
The previous UHD pop-up for the French Open (or was it Winter Olympics - or was it both?) was VM-only and not on Sky Q. Wonder if this will be different.
noggin
Founding member
Wimbledon 2018
Eurosport are opening a pop up 4K Channel on VM and presumably Sky for their Wimbledon Final coverage next weekend.
The previous UHD pop-up for the French Open (or was it Winter Olympics - or was it both?) was VM-only and not on Sky Q. Wonder if this will be different.
NG
Could that be they were shooting an angle not usually used on Marr pre-records in A. Aren't they usually hard-set interviews on chairs rather than the sofa?
Furthermore, when showing this wide shot, there were some very odd artefacts appearing in the top left corner.
http://i64.tinypic.com/20ux3zd.jpg
That's just a chroma key not clipped properly.
noggin
Founding member
Broadcasting House, Salford Quays & TVC
I think they have been tinkering with the VR version of Studio B in Studio A, and not necessarily an improvement.
Marr did an interview with Boris Becker which was recorded in A. The pillar to the left of Boris looks oddly rendered, with a surface texture which doesn't appear in reality.
http://i64.tinypic.com/s5af53.jpg
Marr did an interview with Boris Becker which was recorded in A. The pillar to the left of Boris looks oddly rendered, with a surface texture which doesn't appear in reality.
http://i64.tinypic.com/s5af53.jpg
Could that be they were shooting an angle not usually used on Marr pre-records in A. Aren't they usually hard-set interviews on chairs rather than the sofa?
Quote:
Furthermore, when showing this wide shot, there were some very odd artefacts appearing in the top left corner.
http://i64.tinypic.com/20ux3zd.jpg
That's just a chroma key not clipped properly.
NG
Yes - non-broadcast chain connectivity (floor monitors, monitor stacks, prompt feeds etc.) using full-fat 2022-6/7 or 2110 seems a bit of a waste - and will bump costs up. Getting bitrates <1Gbs makes life a lot easier.
One of the major uses for NDI compression is in routing edit suite 'broadcast' monitor feeds to KVM edit suites (replacing routers) (KVM editing is pretty common now. Install all of your Avid crates in a CAR, then just make them and their monitoring available anywhere using NDI+KVM solutions)
Does the BBC have any modern Grass Valley HD cameras in use for studios (I know they’re used in OBs) or are they pretty much all Sony?
BBC NBH and regions that have replaced their elderly SD cameras with HD in preparation for a switch to HD are standardised on the Sony HSC300 (running over Triax not SMPTE)
BBC Studioworks (which is arms length) is Sony HDC 4300s (with HDC 2500s in HD I think) BBC outside broadcasts - before it was sold to SIS Live - was also all-Sony eventually (in the late 70s and 80s they used a mix of Philips, Sony, Ikegami and some Fernsehs)
The remaining in-house BBC OB trucks in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all Sony (HDC1500 possibly with some 2500s)
Older BBC regional centres have Thomson TTV1707s (Thomson became part of GrassValley and the TTVs were sold with GVG branding briefly, but GVG cameras are really the descendants of Philips LDK series)
In the UK Sony is the dominant player in broadcast cameras. NEP were GVG/Philips LDK for their SD and HD trucks, but have switched to Sony HDC4300s globally now. Arena in the UK have switched from Sony SD/HD cameras to GVG LDXs in their new trucks, but that is because they have a fully GVG IP solution (TICO for UHD I think).
If you talk to any maintenance or camera operators you know everyone prefers Sony. The ergonomics are better, and they are more reliable. You always need to buy one more GVG camera than Sony for any installation as one will usually be in maintenance... You also have to be careful re-patching GVG cameras on-air (in case they don't come back up), whereas with Sony it's just a standard way of working.
The BBC are using GVG IP/SDI nodes - but aren't committed to an entirely GVG operation in Cardiff.
I’m also interested if they will use the facility and design it as a test bed for 4K production? A lot of the Grass Valley IP equipment is 4K capable. The only issue is I imagine bandwidth fitting it to a 10Gbps pipe but I think that’s TICO compression that most of the major manufacturers are part of.
The building is built to include UHD post-production for drama (not sure if this includes 4K) but the bulk of the infrastructure will be HD. If they go 2022-7 then they will need to still use Quadrant or 2SI techniques, if they go 2110 then they can carry UHD natively potentially (with or without TICO)
Also, isn’t aren’t a lot of areas NBH designed for broadcast outside the studios that aren’t designed for regular use (I’m thinking of shots during Business Live where there’s obviously a camera operator and they are using the Bloomberg terminal) ? I imagine they won’t have fiber drops or hookup a camera that requires a CCU for a temporary live shot. So I imagine there’d still be SDI.
They sometimes use RF cameras around the building. News often go cheap-skate and use HD-SDI Outputs from camcorders. However non-news shows would prefer to do things properly by plugging a SMPTE or triax camera into a correctly patched wallbox. This is a single cable drop and gives you prompt, tallies, the operator gets reverse, the camera gets remote iris/black and shading control etc. Doing that with an SDI solution is a lot of plugging, or you lose facilities.
Given that you can use SHEDs to get SMPTE cameras over commodity fibre, there's little reason to go the HD-SDI route IF you've planned your infrastructure accordingly. However if you haven't then RF or an HD-SDI solution is quick and dirty.
noggin
Founding member
Broadcasting House, Salford Quays & TVC
Here’s an interesting article from TVNewsCheck with Mike Ellis on the move to IP. It looks like they want IP everywhere and one thing they’re finding difficult is monitors where they’d need HDMI converters. I was thinking they’d require a lot of converters for IP to displays and maybe cameras. However they’re partnering with Grass Valley for a lot of the infrastructure and I assume they’ll use those cameras which I believe have an IP output.
Yes - non-broadcast chain connectivity (floor monitors, monitor stacks, prompt feeds etc.) using full-fat 2022-6/7 or 2110 seems a bit of a waste - and will bump costs up. Getting bitrates <1Gbs makes life a lot easier.
One of the major uses for NDI compression is in routing edit suite 'broadcast' monitor feeds to KVM edit suites (replacing routers) (KVM editing is pretty common now. Install all of your Avid crates in a CAR, then just make them and their monitoring available anywhere using NDI+KVM solutions)
Quote:
Does the BBC have any modern Grass Valley HD cameras in use for studios (I know they’re used in OBs) or are they pretty much all Sony?
BBC NBH and regions that have replaced their elderly SD cameras with HD in preparation for a switch to HD are standardised on the Sony HSC300 (running over Triax not SMPTE)
BBC Studioworks (which is arms length) is Sony HDC 4300s (with HDC 2500s in HD I think) BBC outside broadcasts - before it was sold to SIS Live - was also all-Sony eventually (in the late 70s and 80s they used a mix of Philips, Sony, Ikegami and some Fernsehs)
The remaining in-house BBC OB trucks in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all Sony (HDC1500 possibly with some 2500s)
Older BBC regional centres have Thomson TTV1707s (Thomson became part of GrassValley and the TTVs were sold with GVG branding briefly, but GVG cameras are really the descendants of Philips LDK series)
In the UK Sony is the dominant player in broadcast cameras. NEP were GVG/Philips LDK for their SD and HD trucks, but have switched to Sony HDC4300s globally now. Arena in the UK have switched from Sony SD/HD cameras to GVG LDXs in their new trucks, but that is because they have a fully GVG IP solution (TICO for UHD I think).
If you talk to any maintenance or camera operators you know everyone prefers Sony. The ergonomics are better, and they are more reliable. You always need to buy one more GVG camera than Sony for any installation as one will usually be in maintenance... You also have to be careful re-patching GVG cameras on-air (in case they don't come back up), whereas with Sony it's just a standard way of working.
The BBC are using GVG IP/SDI nodes - but aren't committed to an entirely GVG operation in Cardiff.
Quote:
I’m also interested if they will use the facility and design it as a test bed for 4K production? A lot of the Grass Valley IP equipment is 4K capable. The only issue is I imagine bandwidth fitting it to a 10Gbps pipe but I think that’s TICO compression that most of the major manufacturers are part of.
The building is built to include UHD post-production for drama (not sure if this includes 4K) but the bulk of the infrastructure will be HD. If they go 2022-7 then they will need to still use Quadrant or 2SI techniques, if they go 2110 then they can carry UHD natively potentially (with or without TICO)
Quote:
Also, isn’t aren’t a lot of areas NBH designed for broadcast outside the studios that aren’t designed for regular use (I’m thinking of shots during Business Live where there’s obviously a camera operator and they are using the Bloomberg terminal) ? I imagine they won’t have fiber drops or hookup a camera that requires a CCU for a temporary live shot. So I imagine there’d still be SDI.
They sometimes use RF cameras around the building. News often go cheap-skate and use HD-SDI Outputs from camcorders. However non-news shows would prefer to do things properly by plugging a SMPTE or triax camera into a correctly patched wallbox. This is a single cable drop and gives you prompt, tallies, the operator gets reverse, the camera gets remote iris/black and shading control etc. Doing that with an SDI solution is a lot of plugging, or you lose facilities.
Given that you can use SHEDs to get SMPTE cameras over commodity fibre, there's little reason to go the HD-SDI route IF you've planned your infrastructure accordingly. However if you haven't then RF or an HD-SDI solution is quick and dirty.
Last edited by noggin on 3 July 2018 10:05am
NG
Perhaps the FA Cup stream will disappear for this evening? I wouldn't think there will be too many people trying that given the two other events available!
If people aren't accessing it - I don't see the need to remove it.
AIUI there are 5 UHD stream URLs in use - which suggests there are 5 CDN chains?
I doubt the FA Cup stream is using an encoder and is just replaying an existing DASH stream. I guess the bigger question is how many UHD live encoder chains the BBC currently has available for properly live contributions.
noggin
Founding member
The Sport Thread
So tonight we'll see three UHD feeds from the BBC iPlayer. (World Cup, Wimbledon and the FA Cup test stream) It'll be fascinating to see how it works with the additional requests made by viewers, and the increased outgoing content supply.
Perhaps the FA Cup stream will disappear for this evening? I wouldn't think there will be too many people trying that given the two other events available!
If people aren't accessing it - I don't see the need to remove it.
AIUI there are 5 UHD stream URLs in use - which suggests there are 5 CDN chains?
I doubt the FA Cup stream is using an encoder and is just replaying an existing DASH stream. I guess the bigger question is how many UHD live encoder chains the BBC currently has available for properly live contributions.
NG
Though a lot of planets in TNG were created using Quantel Paintbox + Mirage I believe. Artwork a flat texture in Paintbox then wrap it onto a sphere in Mirage (that also allowed simple rotation). Bob's your uncle - cheap planet "CGI" without using computer graphics.
noggin
Founding member
Branding Carlton
TNG was mostly models, which made it a lot easier to upgrade it to HD, as they were able to recomposite the model work, and redo what little CGI there was. It's harder when you get to DS9 and Voyager, as there's a lot more CGI that would need redoing totally from scratch which is why they haven't done those yet. I think both shows were pretty much entirely CGI effects towards the end of the run.
Though a lot of planets in TNG were created using Quantel Paintbox + Mirage I believe. Artwork a flat texture in Paintbox then wrap it onto a sphere in Mirage (that also allowed simple rotation). Bob's your uncle - cheap planet "CGI" without using computer graphics.
NG
Carrie's principled stand has earned her a huge amount of respect within the BBC (amongst men and women alike), and a large number of people will care about her future treatment, as it is indicative of how they may be treated.
noggin
Founding member
Carrie Gracie resignation
Nobody will care in six months. Nobody really cares now.
Carrie's principled stand has earned her a huge amount of respect within the BBC (amongst men and women alike), and a large number of people will care about her future treatment, as it is indicative of how they may be treated.
NG
Because ITV exists to get audiences for adverts, not the programmes in the gaps in between
.
Far better to get a high audience for the ad break (which will generate you significant amounts of money) than a higher audience for the following show (which won't)
noggin
Founding member
Good Evening Britain
I agree - if you wanted to pick up the footy audience why have a break inbetween?!
Because ITV exists to get audiences for adverts, not the programmes in the gaps in between
.
Far better to get a high audience for the ad break (which will generate you significant amounts of money) than a higher audience for the following show (which won't)
NG
Point of order - it's not the director actually cutting, it's the vision mixer. Depending on the show they may cut only under the director's control, but on many shows there is latitude for the vision mixer to cut un-directed.
The director may have called a camera that hadn't fully reframed, but without being in the gallery it's not easy to know that.
noggin
Founding member
Loose Women
I swear, since they moved studios not an episode has gone by without the director cutting to a camera that hasn't fully moved into position. Perhaps there's not enough room to move quickly enough, or are there less cameras?
Point of order - it's not the director actually cutting, it's the vision mixer. Depending on the show they may cut only under the director's control, but on many shows there is latitude for the vision mixer to cut un-directed.
The director may have called a camera that hadn't fully reframed, but without being in the gallery it's not easy to know that.
NG
Hang on, that's not according to this tweet...
The peak was due to the inheritance from the match. After less than 20 minutes on-air that 5.25m (which was actually before GEB started) audience had dropped to 3.06m. Losing 2.2 million (or more than 40%) of your audience in less than 20 minutes isn't groundbreakingly successful.
noggin
Founding member
Good Evening Britain
GEB was watched by 2.91M last night
Hang on, that's not according to this tweet...
BOOM!
— Piers Morgan (@piersmorgan) June 29, 2018
Good Evening Britain peaked at 5.2m viewers last night, smashing Love Island which peaked at just 3.6m.
Thanks for watching & restoring my faith in humanity! pic.twitter.com/MLWBar24DF
The peak was due to the inheritance from the match. After less than 20 minutes on-air that 5.25m (which was actually before GEB started) audience had dropped to 3.06m. Losing 2.2 million (or more than 40%) of your audience in less than 20 minutes isn't groundbreakingly successful.