TheMike's posts, page 10

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MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

tmf9 posted:
If C4 are hiring the full transponder just to carry C4 HD and 4Seven it is an awful waste of money. That transponder has always been more than half empty. If they are paying for all that unused space it is particularly odd that they didn't use it to house the Box music channels when looking to cut transmission costs:
https://www.globecast.com/the-box-plus-network-signs-with-globecast-to-increase-dth-distribution-efficiency/

The deal with Globecast was signed before C4 took full control of the Box Plus Network.
MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

tmf9 posted:
mici0123 posted:
gottago posted:
I'd love to know how many people still have SD only Sky boxes these days. Presumably still a sizeable number given that C5 for example, which has been a non-regionalised service for years, hasn't switched off its SD stream.


Well TBH there is nor real point in C5 shutting down the SD stream. C5 SD currently runs at 1.7 Mbps according to DigitalBitrate. That's not enough for an HD stream of one of their other channels so all they can do is either switch off C5 SD and give all the other channels on that Mux a little more space or do a +1 for 5select or Paramount Network.

steveboswell posted:
Well those streams are also used for Freesat viewers, but Channel 5 took the view that 1 national HD channel was more important than sustaining several regional variations in SD.

Put simply, C4 must believe that the LEMNUS model is still profitable.


For C4 it's actually less about space on DSAT I think. On 11127V, the Mux that currently hosts C4 HD and 4seven, they have about 19 mbps of space.

So they basically could just run 2 additional HD services on that Mux easily, without shutting down any of the SD services


C4 doesn't necessarily lease that entire transponder. Satellite capacity can be hired by the amount of bandwidth required, so C4 only pay for the space they need.

C4 have the entire transponder used for C4 HD. C4 took the whole transponder in 2011 as part of a deal with SES and last renewed the capacity in 2018.
MI
TheMike

BBC Regional SD/HD Transmissions

Ben Shatliff posted:
Bail posted:


Also the fact that ITV are expanding their HD regions on satellite but not on terrestrial (at least they're not yet) is also an indicator of this. The HD mux, which is the BBCs, carries both BBC One HD and ITV HD so ITV expanding their regions on there would help the BBC do the same.



Are all the ITV HD Regions available for us all to see on Sky or Freeview or is it by going to Settings and Manual Tuning still on Sky?

BBC North West is still SD 101.



You'll need to play with manual tuning options on Sky or Freesat receivers to see the other ITV HD regions, including those new regions already on-air ahead of joining the EPG on Tuesday.

(11097 vertical, symbol rate 23000 or 23Mbaud FEC 3/4.
SID 21010 Meridian North
SID 21015 Meridian South
SID 21070 Anglia West
SID 21080 Central East
Best to tune them in before Tuesday, when they will all be relabelled ITV HD.)

There's no change to ITV HD on Freeview and there's no change to BBC services.


...Edit: plus ITV HD Yorkshire East SID 20820 on 11068V
Last edited by TheMike on 17 October 2020 8:51pm
MI
TheMike

The BBC World News Thread

m_in_m posted:
Universal_r posted:
It’s a shame it’s being reduced to half an hour, it was my favourite hour on the news channel.

Is the reduction only for the short period where the time difference is altered?

Yes, any changes are temporary for one week until the US clocks are realigned to the normal five hour difference between Eastern and UK time.

However, with it being the run up to the US Elections, there will be lot of output from Washington anyway...
MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

Spencer posted:
Markymark posted:
TheMike posted:
Both satellite and Freeview versions of ITV's main channel are 720x576.


When did that change ? Presumably when the 'must carry' on D-Sat directive came in ? I clearly haven't been paying attention over the last few years !


I may have totally misremembered, but I have it in mind that ITV increased its resolution on satellite to 720x576 quite a long time ago. I’m sure I remember there being an improvement on SD before ITV HD launched on DSat, so probably over 10 years ago. I seem to remember some discussion on here about how they’d got some new, more efficient encoders which allowed them to improve the picture quality.

It happened in 2010, previously only the modern day West Country W region enjoyed higher resolution as the satellite signal temporarily fed terrestrial transmitters in the region.
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MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

SkySaint posted:
TheMike posted:
Markymark posted:

I think where the HD version that's available is 'correct' for a particular locality, then the HD version of ITV is mapped to 103 ?

No. ITV HD is on Freesat 111 in all ITV regions. On Tuesday, ITV HD will move to channel 103.


To check Freesat channels go to https://www.freesat.co.uk/tv-guide and enter a postcode for the TV region you're interested in. A London postcode input in the TV guide and in a Freesat TV/box will give you ITV London SD on 103 and ITV London HD on 111 until shortly after Sky have made the necessary changes on 20th October. This is due to a stage called the 'adaptation hub', after which the Freesat EPG will be changed to show ITV HD on 103. Whether ITV SD moves to 111 or vanishes altogether remains to be seen. I expect ITV+1 regions to be remapped ahead of being withdrawn from Sky, so look out for changes on Monday afternoon on Freesat in affected regions.


The ITV Border announcement wasn’t very clear but it didn’t promise ITV HD on 103 on Freesat in Border Scotland. It was clear that Border Scotland would continue to get its own region on 103. Since that doesn’t exist in HD and there are no current plans to add it, I would think that as a minimum LCN 111 will be needed for ITV HD in the Border Scotland region. It may also be used for the SD version in all other regions (apart from Channel Islands which I assume will have SD on 103).

It's a valid point, and some comms from both Freesat and Freeview over the years have skirted around the availablity of ITV in the Border Scotland region or avoided all mention. So I'm pleased ITV has made an announcement, although I feel it does gloss over the fact Border Scotland will miss out on HD in the primary position, and feels like a marketing article rather than something that belongs to a news site.*

You are right that 111 or another slot would have to be retained for ITV HD in the last two SD-only ITV areas.

* https://www.itv.com/news/border/2020-10-14/information-for-itv-news-border-satellite-viewers
MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

Markymark posted:
LondonViewer posted:
Are ITV HD variants on 103 in Freesat homes currently? If not, will this change in light of extra HD regions, SD discontinuation.


I think where the HD version that's available is 'correct' for a particular locality, then the HD version of ITV is mapped to 103 ?

No. ITV HD is on Freesat 111 in all ITV regions. On Tuesday, ITV HD will move to channel 103.


To check Freesat channels go to https://www.freesat.co.uk/tv-guide and enter a postcode for the TV region you're interested in. A London postcode input in the TV guide and in a Freesat TV/box will give you ITV London SD on 103 and ITV London HD on 111 until shortly after Sky have made the necessary changes on 20th October. This is due to a stage called the 'adaptation hub', after which the Freesat EPG will be changed to show ITV HD on 103. Whether ITV SD moves to 111 or vanishes altogether remains to be seen. I expect ITV+1 regions to be remapped ahead of being withdrawn from Sky, so look out for changes on Monday afternoon on Freesat in affected regions.
Last edited by TheMike on 17 October 2020 3:40pm - 2 times in total
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TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

Markymark posted:
TheMike posted:
Markymark posted:

There are no PSB requirements for any PSB broadcaster to be on satellite . It's only if they are, they must receive the appropriate EPG prominence. Which is why 1998 to Nov 2001 Sky had to fill Ch103 with a holding banner


That's changed: Part 2, 1E of the regional Channel 3 and national Channel 4 and 5 licences:

Quote:
The Licensee shall ensure that the
(Channel 3/4/5 Service), is at all times offered as available (subject to the need to agree terms) to be broadcast by means of every satellite television service that is available for reception by members of the public in the whole or a part of the United Kingdom.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/tv-broadcast-licences/current-licensees

It doesn't stipulate how this is done, SD or HD. Until now, broadcasters have fulfilled the criteria through distributing their SD versions.


Are ITV's SD streams still 544 x 576? Odd that Ofcom would make D-Sat a must carry platform but not impose the same minimum technical standards requirements that DTT has?

Both satellite and Freeview versions of ITV's main channel are 720x576.
MI
TheMike

New Meridian, BBC South & South East Thread

Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
May well depend on which advertisers have bought spots on the day?


For a while Oxford still showed Central non news programming, and was tied to their playout, so I think it had separate ads to Hannington at that point?



Oxford switched fully to Meridian on 2nd February 2015.

This was the day Freeview mux BBC-B, which carries ITV HD switched in its entirety from the Midlands version to the South East version, so it impacted all main Freeview HD channels at the time.

Between February 2009 and February 2015, Central South carried Meridian News but Central adverts and what was left of other regional programming from Central.
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MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
I think you've answered your own question. If they weren't required to be on Sky then, I doubt they are now.


There are no PSB requirements for any PSB broadcaster to be on satellite . It's only if they are, they must receive the appropriate EPG prominence. Which is why 1998 to Nov 2001 Sky had to fill Ch103 with a holding banner


That's changed: Part 2, 1E of the regional Channel 3 and national Channel 4 and 5 licences:

Quote:
The Licensee shall ensure that the
(Channel 3/4/5 Service), is at all times offered as available (subject to the need to agree terms) to be broadcast by means of every satellite television service that is available for reception by members of the public in the whole or a part of the United Kingdom.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/tv-broadcast-licences/current-licensees

It doesn't stipulate how this is done, SD or HD. Until now, broadcasters have fulfilled the criteria through distributing their SD versions.
Steve in Pudsey and Markymark gave kudos
MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

With all the removals, ITV can either
(i) shuffle remaining SD services, then move the ITV HD variants currently using Sky capacity back on to one of its transponders
(ii) shuffle remaining SD services around and hand back a transponder

It would be nice if option (i) was chosen, and they could accommodate extra free-to-air STV HD regions in the same way they carry STV SD regions - but the availability of STV HD regions on Sky is linked to an earlier carriage deal they made, which bundled extra HD regions with inclusion of the STV Player - so it would depend how long that agreement had to run. Clearing one more transponder for HD would allow ITV to carry 3x ITV HD, 2x STV HD and perhaps ITVBe HD (currently not on Sky).
But given the current economics, option (ii) would simply save ITV plc money, given that subletting capacity for three ITV HD regions on Sky transponders is likely to be less than the cost of one transponder.
MI
TheMike

ITV HD Regions on Freeview

This Is Granada posted:
eladkse posted:
https://www.sky.com/help/articles/itv-service-changes-october

Quote:
On 20 October, ITV HD launches in Yorkshire East, Central East, Anglia West, Meridian North and Meridian South.

Also on 20 October 2020, ITV SD closes in Border England, Anglia West, Meridian North and Yorkshire East.
ITV+1 closes in Anglia, West, Tyne Tees, Westcountry, Wales and Yorkshire.
These closing ITV SD and ITV+1 services will be replaced by larger regions.


ITV apparently shutting down a number of their SD services on satellite at the same time. There's going to be some significant holes... especially in Yorkshire (where only Yorks West will remain, with no timeshifts).


Regarding +1's, what will be left after next Tuesday?

I'm guessing everyone in Northern England will get Granada+1, and Central+1 will be in Wales, HTV West and Westcountry regions?

Freeview only has limited +1 regions, maybe trying to replicate these on satelite?



Freeview has had the all *available* +1s (there never was the full set of +1's down to micro regional level on any platform)

This is a reversion to the macro regions

Northern Macro - Granada, Yorkshire, Tyne Tees [Carries Granada]
Midwest Macro - Central, Wales, West Country (incorporating the old 'west' region) [ Carries Central West micro.]
South East Macro - Anglia and Meridian [Carries Meridian E micro]


It'll mean the +1's will cover the same areas as the macro HD regions on Freeview.