NextBigThing's posts, page 3

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 11:06pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

I will hand it to Channel 4, the production values are for the most part high and the surrounding presentation is pretty good, but I feel the concept behind the idents isn't mainstream enough to resonate with many people. Modern art's fine in Tate but on a major TV channel I'm not so sure.

Channel 4's not supposed to be mainstream. It's arguable whether or not it actually is, but I'm sure that promoting the idea that the channel is creative, edgy and a bit left-field would've been part of the thinking behind the idents and they seem to have succeeded there.

Whereas the creative thinking behind the BBC idents seems to have been done by someone whilst they were sitting on the loo having a fag in Broadcasting House one afternoon...

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 11:01pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

Sorry if this has been asked already, but... How many people on this forum (and, on a grander scale, percentage of the entire country) go swimming in the sea in winter? How many go to a Zumba class? I bet virtually no one.

I find it absurd that, if the aim of the BBC is to show activities that are supposed to represent bringing large proportions of the nation together, they kick-off with such niche and (in the case of the swimmers) eccentric pastimes. These are enjoyed by a minute subset of society at best. If they're after the real shared tedium of everyday life, why not show a whole bunch of people going shopping in Tesco on a Saturday? Or a large queue at a post office? Or frustrated commuters sitting stationary in their cars on the M25? Or a bunch of people waiting for the gas man to turn up?

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 9:50pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

Worzel posted:

The whole thing is a complete mess. As I said before I work in radio imaging/ident/promo/ad production. You wouldn't rebrand a radio station with 2 idents/jingles and nothing else. You relaunch with a set and package of styles suitable for the programming you air and have variations that still scream that you're listening to the same radio station. The same with TV, and if anything it's much more pertinent as it's a visual medium rather than just audio driven.

The whole BBC family of channels is a complete and utter mess in terms of on screen identity, it truly is the worst I have seen and it's heartbreaking to say. Over on One you've got a half-hearted attempt at new idents with trailers, end boards and ECPs which aren't joined up in anyway and aren't consistent. On Two there's a hideous boxed 'BBC TWO' logo (with Subtitles graphic which is not in line) but still retains the classic number 2 on the ident which was created in 4:3 SD in 1991. Either have the word Two on the ident in some way or drop the boxed logo and use the number, don't use both. Then there's BBC Four which once again has a boxed logo located in a completely different part of the screen.

There's nothing joined up about the channels in terms of identity, branding and coherence.

There's one simple solution and answer. Bring Martin Lambie-Nairn in and get him to rebrand the whole family of channels in one go and at the same time, with a brief for each channel which suits the programming of today, not 25 years ago in the case of BBC Two. Pay the money and do the lot in one go and stop faffing around and dithering with films on a beach or in a Zumba class. The BBC seem scared of its own shadow at times.

Frankly, I'm amazed that the likes of Martin LN and other celebrated designers haven't offered their services for free. If I were a senior person in the industry I would be so affronted and appalled about the state of the BBC's pres (not to mention the bad name it gives to the wider industry) that I would be banging-down the door at Broadcasting House to help sort this embarrassment out!

Last edited by NextBigThing on 2 January 2017 9:55pm

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 8:49pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

Square Eyes posted:

I'm kind of amused (or perhaps bemused) about the thought process that must have gone into the selection of the version of the bathers ident for the news.

What must have been the thought process to pick the version where they show us their backsides ? Not that either version is appropriate but why is that one more appropriate for news than the other one ?

Probably because 'Moobs at Ten' would have been too easy a gag...

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 8:37pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

tomo359 posted:

Juicy Joe posted:

London Lite posted:

If anything called for a France 2 style non CA ident, this it it.

That junction was completely unsuitable using that ident. 2 people drowned, introduced by people jumping around???

Seriously poor.

This sums up the major problem with launching a new look with only two idents, they couldn't really use the swimming ident with a bunch of people in water given the subject matter in EE, so what did they have left, the only other version with a bunch of randoms doing dance exercise badly out of sync with each other, Yeyy go BBC!

Totally agree. The BBC have never stooped as low. An absolute disgrace.

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 5:13pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

edmund posted:

Tim Goodwin1 posted:

Around 4 years ago whilst on holiday, I though of an idea that BBC 1 could follow for a new symbol which was inspired by the Swiss tv idents focusing on the numeral which was shot in various locations in the confederation. Maybe the BBC should go Swiss and take something similar on.
The red fits in well with BBC one as well, with it being the primary colour of the channel for just about 20 years now.

Their sea swimmers ident is certainly more impressive... SRF have to be the polar opposite of BBC for consistency. Their original idents were created by Dunning Penny/Elley Jones. No reason BBC couldn't have done the same. They actually added to their collection of idents, always following the same theme for the many years the package aired. The ident below is from their new look, again it still follows a similar theme and doesn't feel the need to have any silly tagline or marketing babble, its just a good ident. No channels in the UK seem to be able to add to their idents and if they do they are sub par and don't match the originals. They could have retained the circles and combine it with oneness (swimming in a circle, dancing in a circle etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmnxxGWEreI

The comparison to SF1's ident says all you need to know about the BBC's jaded, cynical, depressing view of modern Britain. The Swiss get a slick, stylised and aspirational depiction of young fit athletic swimmers, we get an eyeful of moobs and sagging white bits... I accept the BBC's version is more realistic, but surely idents should have something to say in funny, smart, engaging and upbeat way? Why does the BBC seem so obsessed with highlighting the depressing grime and banality of everyday life?

NB

NextBigThing 2 January 2017 4:19pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

Jay Lee posted:

Brekkie posted:

I was so underwhelmed by the main Christmas idents but they are masterpieces compared to the new look - at least they had a common concept throughout the set, even if it wasn't quite executed to the standards we expect.

As you say though the Christmas Day ones were just a simple concept executed very well - idents don't have to be complicated, they just have to be well done. The swimmers ident just make no sense - why are they there? If they were stopping to look at camera even just to say "This is BBC One" it might make a big of sense, but no. There is no point.

Agreed. I know I sound like a broken record but why are gormless idiots breaking off from swimming to stare at me and then walk back into the water?

It's totally rubbish. How does it say "oneness" and coming together (or whatever it's meant to be)? It communicates nothing other than the art of acting oddly.

The only redeeming feature of zumba is that the people are actually doing something (in a bland, random fashion).

Repeat repeat repeat: HOW did these make it to air? They beggar belief on absolutely all levels. The worst part is we're probably stuck with this rubbish until the next Charter Renewal at least.

It's been bugging me for the last 24 hours what these 'slice of real life' idents remind me of, especially the swimmers one. It's just come to me... they are the modern day equivalent of those haunting sepia dead-behind-the-eyes 'slice of real life' portraits that the Victorians were so fond of taking. You know, the grim and desolate looking ones that you feel absolutely no connection to, or warmth or energy from, and are actually quite creepy.
http://www.union-news.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Victorian-workers.jpg

NB

NextBigThing 1 January 2017 7:10pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

Bail posted:

Asa posted:

It was a shame the Circles weren't allowed a proper send off with a little montage - or one more showing of some of the discarded idents. And I guess the Obit ident is those swimmers, unless they're going to play it safe and have a reworked endboard as an alternative.

Oh no, they're allowed to bring back the circles for that... I think helicoper and capres are still allowed for news by the regions.

OK, to me this increasingly appears to be an (admittedly) long, but ultimately temporary, marketing campaign. They clearly have no faith themselves in the long-term foundations of the new package if they are still allowing elements of the previous package to be used. I don't expect this to last the year, and am hoping it's a stop-gap to the autumn when a bigger BBC-wide rebrand launches. The fact that they have launched a package without yet filming the vast majority of the elements is a pretty big hint that they're hedging their bets and going to see how they go. From the fairly generic articles in the press so far (i.e. it all seems a bit non-committal and lacking in any firm plans from what Martin Parr has said) it would be easy for them to back out later in the year and just say that it was always meant to be a temporary campaign.

It could also signify that the age of 5+ year ident packages is gone and BBC One will in future change their presentation far more fluidly & frequently in line with the latest campaign. 'Oneness' is not a brand it is a marketing strap line, nothing more.

Last edited by NextBigThing on 1 January 2017 7:19pm - 3 times in total

NB

NextBigThing 1 January 2017 5:09pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

I don't know how the BBC works, but does anyone know (or can guess) whether there would have been a creative pitch for this work? The concept is so weak that 'oneness' literally has to be spelt out on screen. I can't think of any other commercial or public organisation which has to signpost their creative concepts in this way. Without the word being shown would ANYONE have any clue about what was being represented?

Also, just a thought, but would the same team that worked on the Christmas Day idents have also worked on these? Would the Christmas Day ones have been filmed after the initial batch of these everyday ones? If so, it might be possible that the BBC realised they were extremely bland, came up with something more interesting for Christmas and this will then feed into future idents that are yet to be filmed? In which case the content and quality could improve as the year goes on...

NB

NextBigThing 1 January 2017 4:45pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

tomo359 posted:

First of all, welcome to TV Forum and happy new year

Secondly, I totally agree with your post. There just seems to be no care or thought going into BBC presentation nowadays.

Say what you like about ITV, but they got their 2013 rebrand spot on in terms of making everything all work together, look modern and simple, yet each channel had a unique identity.

Maybe this what BBC needs, completely start again with pres for all channels. It's such as mess with BBC One being a text logo, BBC Two sometimes being a box logo, sometimes no box, CBBC having the weird square logo like BBC Three, none of it works together. If they did a cross channel promo now it would look awful.

I know this will not happen for a long time, if ever the way things seem to be going. It's such a shame seeing what's happening to our loved broadcaster.

Thanks Tomo for the welcome and happy new year to everyone on this forum! You guys are always entertaining. Keep up the good work, and let's stay optimistic for something better later in the year once the BBC realise this embarrassment of a package doesn't cut it in a multi-channel world where the need to be distinctive for all the right reasons has never been greater.

NB

NextBigThing 1 January 2017 4:33pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

I agree. There were actually aspects of the Christmas Day 'viewer idents' that I liked. They felt fresh, fun and different from other channels and what had come before on the BBC. They we're made with some surprisingly high production values and could easily have been expanded upon for the rest of the year. I liked that the 'one' was still in the middle of the screen and then effectively became centre right justified when the 'oneness' was revealed. I also thought it was a nice twist to effectively sandwich each ident into 2 parts around a trailer.

It puzzles me that, having established this as a template, they then chose to roll out an inferior set of flat new idents with no depth, colour or story to them, abandon the prominence of the BBC One central logo for a small bottom screen trailer-style logo, and remove any kind of identifying sonic theme for the channel.

Also, does this Martin Parr bloke not watch any other channels? When the BBC gave him free reign to film everyday UK and he was setting-up the Zumba and Swimming shots, did he not think 'this is vaguely familiar...?' Come to think of it, didn't anyone at the BBC when reviewing his output also make the same connection with ITV?

If they're going to foist this drivel upon us at least make it unique drivel, so we have nothing to judge it against. Using exactly the same visuals as your major competitor when they do it better just serves to show up even more the relative inferiority of the BBC versions.

NB

NextBigThing 1 January 2017 3:59pm

BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

I consider myself one of the lucky ones who is old enough to remember the golden days of TV pres in the 80's & 90's. Indeed it was the quality, creativity & imagination of BBC idents specifically that got me interested in this rather 'niche' topic in the first place. Having followed this thread with interest over the years as a guest, today is the first time I've felt strongly enough to register as a member in order to vent my frustration and sadness at the current state of so-called presentation by our national broadcaster.

Watching BBC One today, so far I have seen a totally banal, charmless and instantly forgettable set of 'exciting new idents', two trailers for Sherlock and Death In Paradise that end with the falling 'O' motif from the previous package, and a now-and-next slide with the red BBC One box that is a hangover from the rhythm and dance era. Meanwhile, on BBC Two they are still using Christmas presentation and endboards to promote BBC Films, even though we are back to the normal retro pres package.

The whole thing is a complete and utter shambles. It just smacks of amateurism and a complete lack of care or attention to the most basic details in putting a consistent and coherent message across. As many have said on here, creativity is free and clever execution of a good idea needn't cost much, so I don't buy the 'money is tight' excuse.

Is there anyone on this forum who works in the BBC that please can explain to me the kind of management style and mentality that is in charge these days? It's almost as if the entire creative staff, channel managers and senior team have some kind of collective denial about what they are passing-off as a distinctive and professional brand image.

I completely despair.

NextBigThing's posts, page 3

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