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DT
DTV

Studio E Images

Bail posted:
Search the council for the actual planning application, I *think* we found it in this thread at some point: https://tvforum.uk/tvhome/broadcasting-house-salford-quays-31415


I think I've been through every single planning document for NBH, which bizarrely include Building Control Applications for the installation of the TV sets in the the studios (although, unfortunately, no plans). The issue is that the final plans - which include the non-structural walls for galleries, Studio E, etc. - are not around until 2009. But, none of those plans actually include floor -1. Every floor above and below is included somewhere post-2009, but I'm yet to find one that includes the main newsroom floor.

But I do recall a few images from around the time of the launch, such as the second image above, that showed the layout of the newsroom complete with Studio E.
DT
DTV

Studio E Images

Very much a curveball this, but does anybody have a higher resolution version of this image.

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Or a version of these graphics that shows all of Studio E, ideally a higher resolution.

*

I've been trying to calculate the exact dimensions of Studio E, but it is just so difficult and it is practically the only floor not covered on any planning documents.

If you do have it, but are reading after TVF closes, you can contact me on the TV Live Forum.

Thanks,
DTV.
DT
DTV

BBC Publishes Annual Plan

Why was BBC Scotland channel created in the first place? Was it pressure from Scottish Parliament to have the BBC provide a unique dedicated Scottish channel? Was it a case they were getting annoyed that Wales had S4C, Scotland needed to have their own, this one being in English, as BBC Alba covered Gaelic.

With BBC Scotland and BBC Alba, it does seem Scotland is far more served by the BBC than Wales is. Northern Ireland just relies on opt outs of BBC One and BBC Two, no dedicated channel for them.


I don't think it was the result of direct political pressure, but it's almost certain that the channel's creation was political. Scottish independence is not an unlikely possibility and the BBC's future in Scotland, if it occurs, is uncertain. BBC Scotland is almost certainly the BBC trying to a) prove that they can adequately serve Scottish audiences as distinct from British audiences and b) more directly show they are invested in Scotland. The BBC's favoured strategy for an independent Scotland is, after all, to remain a pan-British broadcaster and continue to collect Scottish licence money.

I think the comparisons with Scotland vs Wales and Northern Ireland are interesting. I think that it's widely known that the BBC are responsible for a lot of S4C output and the national BBC has a far more visible investment in Wales than in Scotland - Doctor Who, for instance, has never been shy of it's Cardiff base. Plus there is the lack of political pressure in Wales - I don't think there are any particularly Welsh grievances with the BBC nor is one party trying to stoke them and Welsh independence is definitely not viewed as a serious possibility for at least the medium-term. So I think that the BBC would regard its presence in Wales as about right.

Northern Ireland is more difficult as it is a special case in so many ways, but it does seem to get a fair deal of opt-outs from network. But from the political perspective, I'm not sure what the BBC's plan would be in the case of Irish unification. Where as with Scottish or Welsh independence the BBC would clearly intend to remain a cross-national public broadcaster in those countries, I'm not sure about NI. Ireland already has a public broadcaster and losing NI is not that big a hit to BBC finances (unlike losing Scotland or Wales). Plus, there almost certainly would be no appetite for a publicly funded BBC in Ireland. As such, there is no real need for the BBC to curry favour with NI or ROI audiences or political organisations in order to secure a post-reunification future, if that were to happen.
DT
DTV

TVF Confessions

I don't know if it has been said but when the BBC came up with BBC Reith in all of its forms. Am I the only one who wished they went all in with it in one go? A bit like how they did with Gill Sans. Also am I the only one who actually like the type face / font?


I have no problem with it as a general font, it works perfectly well for body text and on-screen graphics. I just feel it doesn't work for logos - because the letterforms lack the distinctive character and uumph that is needed for a good title font. And that's fine, very few typefaces can do general use and design work - Futura is a great example as, in all its weights, it can look great if used on a few words, but is just disastrous when used for long chunks of text.

At the end of the day, Reith Sans is a very good generic 2010s humanist typeface. But it is just that.

Her issue is being public sector IT we have the MS Office weights - which are basically Regular/Roman and Bold and Ultra Bold and not much else.


Yeah, MT isn't exactly the best incarnation of Gill. And, I'll be first to admit that, despite my love of certain weights of Gill Sans, it is a very mixed family - there is no love lost between me and the heavier weights of Gill Sans or the Condensed or Expanded versions.
DT
DTV

N8 2002-2003 Recreation

DrewF posted:
Thank you very, very much! Hopefully we continue to see your work elsewhere.


Well, I'll be moving over to TV Live Forum and hope to continue building SketchUp sets as long as you lot will let me. I've got the few ongoing projects mentioned in Odds and Ends, but I'm always coming up with ideas - a recent one is a hybrid of TVC and NBH sets - such as a cream and red version of the NBH-B layout.
DT
DTV

TVF Confessions

I cannot express how much I despise Gill Sans MT and its sister fonts.

And especially how the BBC used it for a large chunk of its existence (and it is still used in a decent amount of places today.)

Just, no.

Please try; what is it you don't like about it?

For me I think it suits logotype but that's it, when the BBC (and others) were using it for every body of text everywhere it got a) a bit much and b) was difficult to read.

I have a colleague at work who uses it on everything as its her favourite, caused some issues when she put some posters up with text written in Gill Sans and Media & Marketing saw it - whose guidelines say it's Helvetica or Arial if not available.


I know how she feels, I use Gill Sans Nova (up to Semibold, everything heavier is awful) for pretty much everything, it's my default even in Excel.

Although you are right that Gill can often be misused for body text. The BBC used to use the Regular/Roman weight a lot, which is just too heavy for any long length of text. Part of the issue is that Gill's original weights just do not line up with standard typographic weights, but also the failure of a lot of people to note that some typefaces are not suitable for everything. Personally, I use Regular for headings and Light for body.
DT
DTV

The BBC World News Thread

The very few occasions of late that I’ve seen studio c it’s starting to look very run down. Especially the cat walk.

It’s held up pretty well considering it’s on air 23 hours a day and is 9 years old now. I agree though, it’s not looking it’s best.


The problem is is that, when the time does come to replace the NBH sets, it'll be a nightmare. It's not like it was 20 years ago when the set could be ripped out and a new one put up over a weekend, these days new sets take an age to install - with an increasing amount of tech needing to be calibrated and weeks of rehearsal being the norm.

Plus you have the decamping issue - entire channels will have to move to temporary homes for months at a time - and the simultaneous issue - do you do Studio C and E at the same time or not. It would be possible to do both simultaneously - one could move into B and the other into D, with London relegated to A. But which gets which - World is more familiar with B, but I'm sure that nationals would rather have the larger studio and catwalk. You could of course install new sets one at a time, but with unprecedented levels of simulcasting between NC and World - you'll have months of one studio being completely different to the other (while they have done this before, it is suboptimal from a branding/relaunch point of view).

Then you've got the Furios - do you:
- Keep them as is - in which case your set design options are limited to being very similar in layout to the existing sets.
- Introduce a new track layout - additional time to install and calibrate the cameras.
- Replace with new tech - gives you the most options for new set design, put also the most expensive.
DT
DTV

N8 2002-2003 Recreation

It is the end of the forum, it's the set that was used when TVF was launched (sort of) and you lot did like it a lot. So as a parting gift, here is BBC N8 - 2002 in SketchUp form.

Just a few terms and conditions, please don't upload it anywhere else and, as it does contain my N8 base, if you are going to strip it back and use it for your own SketchUp models that's OK, but please inform me first.
Last edited by DTV on 31 March 2021 7:03pm - 3 times in total
Willz and Philip Cobbold gave kudos
DT
DTV

The BBC World News Thread

The very few occasions of late that I’ve seen studio c it’s starting to look very run down. Especially the cat walk.


Well as I said yesterday, these sets are the best part of a decade old now and Studio C has been in use more than any other, so you'd be surprised if they weren't beginning to show their age a bit. Although, compared to 2003 N8 set which was a similar age by 2013, it still looks pretty good - I can't see any duct tape holding it together yet!
AndrewPSSP, Ittr and Universal_r gave kudos
DT
DTV

BBC to move more roles outwith London

Totally agree; look at most BBC spec and build projects between 1999 and 2007 they all follow the same trend; move to expensive place; call it the most advanced broadcasting centre in Europe on its first day, fit a tiny studio as an afterthought.

I do wonder if people saw BBC London News' Marylebone High Street setup as a way forward, hence these designs - we know that Tunbridge Wells had planned a similar style at launch to LDN, and the Mailbox's plans were submitted as the LDN service was starting.


Indeed, NBH and Cardiff are the only recent builds where they've remembered to build adequate studio space, in both numbers and size. Although I suspect that, with the former, that was a case of learning a lesson after building Stage 6 at TVC without a single television studio.

It's just slightly unbelievable that, as a broadcaster, you'd forget to include a good sized television studio in the plans - especially when the most consumed programme produced in many of these buildings is a television news programme and considering that many of the preceeding facilities had studios that already looked cramped (increasingly with advent of national style sets in the 1990s). Not to mention that some regions must surely be envious of their far better endowed neighbours.
DT
DTV

BBC to move more roles outwith London

They pretty much will never use the Midlands Today studio for national programming like Marr etc.

They tend use the former Politics Show area which is at the far end of the offices behind the studio, in front of the windows overlooking the canal, just above where the temporary One Show set was constructed. Often seen during party conferences.

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Never pegged that as the Mailbox, always assumed it was rented space like other conference set-ups.

Of course, it'd be better if the Midlands had a satisfactory regional news studio. The problem is Newcastle is the only 'A' grade regional news studio in the North or Midlands, where as the South has Southampton, Bristol and Plymouth.
DT
DTV

BBC to move more roles outwith London

Pebble Mill needed some work, new heating system, windows, electrical work but the fabric was fundamentally sound. It would have been much cheaper to refurb the place as its running costs would have been cheaper. There was no concrete cancer found, that was a myth. It went because of the decision to pull departments out of Birmingham and not a little BBC politics. Only after the decision was made did the top brass become aware that they had nowhere to make Doctors as the foyer didn't show up as studio space (again political) studio A didn't show up on the accountants spread sheets as it was closed and officially didn't exist. It didn't even show up as a four waller and there was no internal system to book it.


To be honest, 'cheaper to refurb' and replacing it with insufficient studio space describes an alarming number of BBC building projects of the last 2-3 decades.

Birmingham is particularly hard done by in studio space. I know they are discussing having Newsnight and Marr occasionaly come from outside of London, but can you imagine doing a national current affairs programme from the BBC's mailbox studio? It'd make Breakfast's situation look satisfactory.