SF
Selwyn Froggatt
I have to say that I hate this new look for Channel 4, whoever thought these idents up must have been stoned. Worst look ever
CY
I'm surprised they weren't stoned by Channel 4 execs for coming up with that pitch!
I have to say that I hate this new look for Channel 4, whoever thought these idents up must have been stoned. Worst look ever
Those who created the idents probably wanted you to think they where stoned when they made them.
I'm surprised they weren't stoned by Channel 4 execs for coming up with that pitch!
CY
I think they do make it crystal clear, actually…
"You're watching lots of crystals!"
When idents don't tell you what channel you're watching that's a mistake in my opinion. Channel 4 says the only place you see the ident fully formed is off air! Riiiiiight!
Rule 1 of idents, make it crystal clear to any viewer what channel your watching.
I think they do make it crystal clear, actually…
"You're watching lots of crystals!"
When idents don't tell you what channel you're watching that's a mistake in my opinion. Channel 4 says the only place you see the ident fully formed is off air! Riiiiiight!
CY
At the end you still get a logo. If somebody flew in from abroad watched those clips to the end with the sound down the logo would appear. If they walk into a room with Channel 4's lovely bits of film they wouldn't know the channel.
Having idents without an ident is just something modern creatives would say now.
How important is a logo on an ident to brand it to a particular channel? Does the ident itself become part of the brand image, making a logo unneeded?
Here's a quick test, can you identify the channel that each of these logoless idents came from?
If you can, doesn't that undermine the argument that you can't have an ident without a logo because nobody will know what they're watching?
Here's a quick test, can you identify the channel that each of these logoless idents came from?
If you can, doesn't that undermine the argument that you can't have an ident without a logo because nobody will know what they're watching?
At the end you still get a logo. If somebody flew in from abroad watched those clips to the end with the sound down the logo would appear. If they walk into a room with Channel 4's lovely bits of film they wouldn't know the channel.
Having idents without an ident is just something modern creatives would say now.
CY
PR waffle! Never fails to amuse me.
Here they are now. "We're so good at television! We're so good at television!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vk2ClhehvI
Copy and paste from 4creative's explanation of this
Quote:
The refreshed identity reflects Channel 4s public service remit focussed on innovation, diversity and taking creative risks and is the latest evolution of a brand that has existed in its current form for over a decade.
We didnt want to tell people what channel theyre watching. We wanted to tell them why theyre watching it in the first place. They watch because Channel 4 stands for something important. We wanted the new branding to reflect this.
We started with the original, iconic Lambie Nairn 4 logo and broke it down into its constituent parts; the nine blocks. The blocks represent Channel 4s incredibly diverse qualities. The blocks are free to demonstrate our remit; to be irreverent, innovative, alternative and challenging. They are free to flow through everything on the channel: our typeface, on-screen menus, on-screen graphics, off-air logo, Channel 4 News, Channel 4 Racing, all the way through to the idents.
The idents present the blocks as kryptonite-like. They tell the story of their origin and how they have a powerful impact on the world around them. Just as Channel 4 does. It is a story that we shall build on.
We didnt want to tell people what channel theyre watching. We wanted to tell them why theyre watching it in the first place. They watch because Channel 4 stands for something important. We wanted the new branding to reflect this.
We started with the original, iconic Lambie Nairn 4 logo and broke it down into its constituent parts; the nine blocks. The blocks represent Channel 4s incredibly diverse qualities. The blocks are free to demonstrate our remit; to be irreverent, innovative, alternative and challenging. They are free to flow through everything on the channel: our typeface, on-screen menus, on-screen graphics, off-air logo, Channel 4 News, Channel 4 Racing, all the way through to the idents.
The idents present the blocks as kryptonite-like. They tell the story of their origin and how they have a powerful impact on the world around them. Just as Channel 4 does. It is a story that we shall build on.
PR waffle! Never fails to amuse me.
Here they are now. "We're so good at television! We're so good at television!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vk2ClhehvI
MI
I've not read this thread end to end, because I think I would end up punching my laptop screen. And as much as this laptop is old, decrepit and will be replaced when the January sales make PC World an attractive place to visit again, I still need it for the time being.
So I'll be brief and hopefully not too Brookerish.
Some arty-farty wishy-washy 21st-Century millenial hipster bollock merchants have shat out some nondescript storyline-based pieces of conceptual art. They have managed to somehow sell this visual snakeoil to the gullible suits at Horseferry Road by basically bullsh*tting ad finitum that the idents will best represent the current collective output of Channel 4 and will help keep Channel 4 at the peak of its Channel Fouriness. Channel 4 have gone along with this in the vain hope that people will talk about the idents, will sit up and take notice and forget that Channel 4 nowadays is basically Countdown, Jon Snow's socks and Gogglebox. Which is a magnificent decline in televisual quality from those heady days when it was Countdown, Friends and Come Dine With Me.
As it is, designery types love it. There's a lot of oohs and aahs and nodding of heads from people with way too Adobe products on their hard drives. Amongst pres enthusiasts such as ourselves there's been reams of conjecture and discourse polluting this and other boards which as we know means jack all because it all occurs within the goldfish bowl of TV identland. A pressure cooker of hot air going off in an empty kitchen.
Nobody really cares. And it doesn't really matter. Because idents are largely superfluous and pointless and useless. WHICH IS WHAT THESE ONES ARE!! It's GENIUS! But also MINDLESS!
Those who say the idents don't say Channel 4 and are therefore useless obviously don't notice that the idents are surrounded by junctions which say Channel 4. Website addresses, twitter hashtags, DOGs, logos on apps and SkyGuides and TiVo and websites ALL say channel 4. It is on LCN 4 or 104 (or 8 in Wales). Every TV now has an EPG which has the channel title on screen for 3-5 seconds (adjustable). If you do not know you are watching Channel 4, then you shouldn't be allowed out in public or you probably don't know which way to use a toilet. The ident, whether you like it or not, as a useful tool is DEAD. Nowadays we're lucky to get a logo on a piece of stock film. That'll do for now.
Which leads me to my final point. If the ident as a tool is dead, why bother? Why go to all the effort? BBC 2 have realised this handsomely - they've recycled theirs! Cheap, cheerful and nostalgic all in one. What Channel 4 have done is, as I mentioned earlier, bought snake oil. They've bought a solution for a problem that didn't exist. They've made something they want to be memorable but which is actually immaterial. It's Schrodinger's Ident - it's both there and not there at the same time.
As you were.
So I'll be brief and hopefully not too Brookerish.
Some arty-farty wishy-washy 21st-Century millenial hipster bollock merchants have shat out some nondescript storyline-based pieces of conceptual art. They have managed to somehow sell this visual snakeoil to the gullible suits at Horseferry Road by basically bullsh*tting ad finitum that the idents will best represent the current collective output of Channel 4 and will help keep Channel 4 at the peak of its Channel Fouriness. Channel 4 have gone along with this in the vain hope that people will talk about the idents, will sit up and take notice and forget that Channel 4 nowadays is basically Countdown, Jon Snow's socks and Gogglebox. Which is a magnificent decline in televisual quality from those heady days when it was Countdown, Friends and Come Dine With Me.
As it is, designery types love it. There's a lot of oohs and aahs and nodding of heads from people with way too Adobe products on their hard drives. Amongst pres enthusiasts such as ourselves there's been reams of conjecture and discourse polluting this and other boards which as we know means jack all because it all occurs within the goldfish bowl of TV identland. A pressure cooker of hot air going off in an empty kitchen.
Nobody really cares. And it doesn't really matter. Because idents are largely superfluous and pointless and useless. WHICH IS WHAT THESE ONES ARE!! It's GENIUS! But also MINDLESS!
Those who say the idents don't say Channel 4 and are therefore useless obviously don't notice that the idents are surrounded by junctions which say Channel 4. Website addresses, twitter hashtags, DOGs, logos on apps and SkyGuides and TiVo and websites ALL say channel 4. It is on LCN 4 or 104 (or 8 in Wales). Every TV now has an EPG which has the channel title on screen for 3-5 seconds (adjustable). If you do not know you are watching Channel 4, then you shouldn't be allowed out in public or you probably don't know which way to use a toilet. The ident, whether you like it or not, as a useful tool is DEAD. Nowadays we're lucky to get a logo on a piece of stock film. That'll do for now.
Which leads me to my final point. If the ident as a tool is dead, why bother? Why go to all the effort? BBC 2 have realised this handsomely - they've recycled theirs! Cheap, cheerful and nostalgic all in one. What Channel 4 have done is, as I mentioned earlier, bought snake oil. They've bought a solution for a problem that didn't exist. They've made something they want to be memorable but which is actually immaterial. It's Schrodinger's Ident - it's both there and not there at the same time.
As you were.
BA
That above hinges on the supposition that someone or some people at Channel 4 have been "fooled" by 4Creative. Everyone involved may be aware of the concept you've explained,
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
MD
Part of the brief for the project was not to just show you which channel you are watching, but for you to feel which channel you are watching. There is also talk about telling a story of the origins of the 4 logo blocks. So this should become clearer with future idents I would imagine. And the other brand elements are the blocks that make up the logo. Reinforcing the brand, without being obvious about it.
Whether you like it personally or not doesn't really matter when all is said and done. It was what the channel wanted, and so it met the brief.
That above hinges on the supposition that someone or some people at Channel 4 have been "fooled" by 4Creative. Everyone involved may be aware of the concept you've explained,
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
Part of the brief for the project was not to just show you which channel you are watching, but for you to feel which channel you are watching. There is also talk about telling a story of the origins of the 4 logo blocks. So this should become clearer with future idents I would imagine. And the other brand elements are the blocks that make up the logo. Reinforcing the brand, without being obvious about it.
Whether you like it personally or not doesn't really matter when all is said and done. It was what the channel wanted, and so it met the brief.
MQ
And therein lies the rub. The channel's management might be happy. But the channel's viewers - at least those on this site - clearly feel they have some 'ownership' too. I wouldn't dismiss as irrelevant that many here (and *possibly* outside of this site, if idents actually register the attention of the average viewer) aren't happy with what's been presented.
In explicit terms, yes, the client is the channel's management. But implicitly, there must be some link back to the audience - or else, what's the point? Clearly, viewers aren't going to just switch off Channel 4 en masse because they don't consider the idents to be proper idents. Still, *if* some segment of the audience feels alienated by these idents, I suspect that is probably not what Channel 4 had in mind in commissioning this.
I hasten to add, I am largely indifferent to these idents. I recognise there's a degree of creativity to them, and have no problems with the lack of (formed) 4 logo featuring in them. At the same time, they don't bowl me over either as something spectacular or memorable. So, as to the merits of whether these are good or not, I really don't have a horse in the race.
Whether you like it personally or not doesn't really matter when all is said and done. It was what the channel wanted, and so it met the brief.
And therein lies the rub. The channel's management might be happy. But the channel's viewers - at least those on this site - clearly feel they have some 'ownership' too. I wouldn't dismiss as irrelevant that many here (and *possibly* outside of this site, if idents actually register the attention of the average viewer) aren't happy with what's been presented.
In explicit terms, yes, the client is the channel's management. But implicitly, there must be some link back to the audience - or else, what's the point? Clearly, viewers aren't going to just switch off Channel 4 en masse because they don't consider the idents to be proper idents. Still, *if* some segment of the audience feels alienated by these idents, I suspect that is probably not what Channel 4 had in mind in commissioning this.
I hasten to add, I am largely indifferent to these idents. I recognise there's a degree of creativity to them, and have no problems with the lack of (formed) 4 logo featuring in them. At the same time, they don't bowl me over either as something spectacular or memorable. So, as to the merits of whether these are good or not, I really don't have a horse in the race.
BA
Part of the brief for the project was not to just show you which channel you are watching, but for you to feel which channel you are watching. There is also talk about telling a story of the origins of the 4 logo blocks. So this should become clearer with future idents I would imagine. And the other brand elements are the blocks that make up the logo. Reinforcing the brand, without being obvious about it.
Whether you like it personally or not doesn't really matter when all is said and done. It was what the channel wanted, and so it met the brief.
I understand completely what they've done, hence why I like it so much. I just think that, even under Alexia's interpretation of events, the rebrand could have happened with everyone's full consent.
That above hinges on the supposition that someone or some people at Channel 4 have been "fooled" by 4Creative. Everyone involved may be aware of the concept you've explained,
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
Channel 4 have already experimented with no logo in the idents, and not actually announcing the show coming next (not properly at least).
What I don't get is the idea that only "edgy" channels can have "edgy" branding. Dave, for example, is virtually a complete channel of repeats. And yet it's name after a man's name. Not long after, all of the UKTV Channels rebranded. UKTV as a brand was gone from our screens, and yet people still knew that Gold was part of the same network as Dave.
They've reintroduced the UKTV brand later, but in a very subtle way. It no longer has to be affixed to every channel name in their network.
Part of the brief for the project was not to just show you which channel you are watching, but for you to feel which channel you are watching. There is also talk about telling a story of the origins of the 4 logo blocks. So this should become clearer with future idents I would imagine. And the other brand elements are the blocks that make up the logo. Reinforcing the brand, without being obvious about it.
Whether you like it personally or not doesn't really matter when all is said and done. It was what the channel wanted, and so it met the brief.
I understand completely what they've done, hence why I like it so much. I just think that, even under Alexia's interpretation of events, the rebrand could have happened with everyone's full consent.