The ident don't look that special. They certainly don't look like they were worth all that money. I agree that they would look more fitting on ITV 1 but as for BBC One, nah!
I was just posting in this topic earlier when the Forum dissapeared, and I managed to save what I typed (well, it was a lot!). When I first saw the idents I thought they looked truely awful, when I wrote this I'd reflected on it a bit and now I've mellowed to the extent that I have an open mind on the subject. I still, however, am very skeptical. Anyway, here's what I wrote earlier:
I will have to wait and see how it looks in motion and with a soundtrack before I can really pass judgement, but from these pictures it really looks awful...
I'm sure there will be some nice camera movements and some nice scenery, but the central idea of having a bunch of people dancing about being the identity of the nation's premier channel is just.. well it is just silly.
The more minor issue of the boxes being on the bottom left and that red-on-white trailer style. Completely screws up any kind of move to straighten out the look accross the channels, I thought BBC TWO would be moving to the BBC FOUR style with BBC ONE but I doubt it now, doesn't seem to matter. Also rules out the idea of having the box shape in the bottom right corner all the time, like the smooth transition you see when a BBC TWO trail is followed by a BBC FOUR one.
Next, this 'inclusiveness' thing. If that's what they're aiming for, it doesn't seem like it would work with these. Fine, there's one for hip-hop, one for rock, one for ballet etc. and I appreciate that, but it still seems (despite the ballet) like it's trying hard to be 'cool', and might alienate the older viewers. Multiculturalism is a good thing and so is true inclusiveness, with different cultures mixing up and everything, but in this respect the idents seem painfully contrived!
Of course if the idents are filmed exceptionally well they might prove popular with all viewers, and I would love it if they did turn out to be good. I'm just very skeptical about it from what we know so far.
I do wonder what they have prepared for times they need something serious. I can't see anything mentioned so far which would appear to be the 'news' ident mentioned previously. Hopefully there won't be a repeat of the BBC TWO farce of not having anything serious prepared and having to make a new one up quickly.
Also, I think the lack of the globe symbol is an issue. Obviously, all things have to come to an end, but it is something very very significant. As I mentioned some time ago when the proposition of the globe being drooped was first mentioned, it would be as if CBS in America scrapped it's eye logo, or NBC got rid of the peacock.
If you're wondering why I'm being so pessimistic about these idents, I suppose it's because I just don't like 'people' idents, and that's based on experience. They worked best on Channel Four, but that was because they were quirky and often amusing, and even then they didn't prove popular at all.The 'lfestyle' balloons idents were abysmal, the worst BBC ONE idents ever shown (so far..?) and then of course there's the so-bad-they're-classic idents of 1993, 'You're watching Carlton, television for London'. Judging from those pictures and descriptions, there is a possiblity that these ones could be even worse than them. I sincerely hope not.
And, I dunno.. just the whole dancing thing. It doesn't sound like a concept that would be good enough for BBC ONE Saturday night trailer menus, let alone the idents. Reminds me of those godawful old Halifax adverts featuring a bunch of middle class people having a song and dance to songs from 'Oliver!'. I've got a feeling I'm about to re-evaulate the current BBC TWO idents, these dancing people might make that new cheeky '2' seem much more appealing.
As I say, I'd be very happy if they get it right and on Friday morning they turn out to be good after all.
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Blake Connolly
My PC is too old and slow even to play that clip! Glad I'm getting a new one soon.. But it means I'll probably have to wait until Friday now to see the idents (but I'll be keeping an eye out on Liquid News). So, I can't really make my mind up till then...
I do agree with whoever said they could be idents for ITV, any channel, though. Nothing much about them says 'BBC ONE' to me, and being the most trusted and most watched channel in the country it needs to have a very strong, indeed grand, identity and I'm not sure if these will pull it off. From the comments on the forum from people who've seen the piece on Breakfast, they don't look good - but I'll just have to wait and see.
One point, though - everyone keeps comparing these to the BA tailfins but I thought they looked quite good, very striking and exciting. In all the airports I've been to, those BA planes really stood out from the others. And I wouldn't really trust the opinions of Mrs. Thatcher anyway...
SP
spotlight
I really think these new idents are great, i found the balloon boring and cold. I think the new idents put across the global theme in a not so obvious way, dance is a great way of bringing all cultures together, there are endless options with a theme of dance, these idents are a good thing i think - but what will they do b4 the news - (a countdown ala news 24, i hope!)
MB
Mark B
Quote:
cwathen on 7:04 pm on Mar. 26, 2002
Quote:
The argument I'm having great trouble with is when Ms H tries to tell me that this new image will be more 'inclusive'.
What can possibly be more 'inclusive' than a picture of the whole bleedin' world, as in globes and balloons?
Another logic failure at the Beeb, methinks.
I think this was another case of change for changes sake. Just like BBC 2 before it, they decided to revamp the channel first, and then decided why it was necessary.
As I said then, if a channel really needs rebranding, then it will be obvious what is wrong with it and no explanation will be necessary. As long as every relaunch is accompanied by lengthy press releases talking of synergy, brand awareness and all the other crap that gets written for them, it will be yet another revamp that didn't really need to happen.
What I particularly don't like, is that every revamp gets progressively worse. I allready thought that it couldn't get any worse than ditching the globe for the balloon, looking at the new idents I see now how wrong I was.
I couldn't agree more.
If we have to be fed such Marketing drivel in order to accept the idents, they obviously realise that they won't grow on us naturally - we need to remember the ideologies, syntagms, etc. etc.
Here is a comment I submitted to BBCi:
I am always interested by change to TV presentation, and BBC ONE has always been interesting.
I do however feel that idents in general are becoming less of a testimony to a channel's 'IDENTity' and leaning more towards becoming 'Advertisement'. I see nothing wrong with BBC ONE wanting to appeal to all cultures and lifestyles, but I think the ident material should have appeared on billboard posters, and something a little more symbolic about the idea of 'BBC ONE' - the button/channel number being used on-screen.
In reality however, the billboard ad campaign simply says 'THE ONE' in the style of the red box, which conveys nothing about multicultualism, and the on-screen idents say very little about the fact you're watching BBC ONE. The red box could be removed and replaced with the white '4' box from Channel 4, and they would look like Channel 4 idents.
Also, since the new set aims to convey the idea of the 'World Stage', surely elements of world maps or globes somewhere in the background would have CONTRIBUTED, not DETRIMENTED, from the brief Ms Heggessey put forward for thier creation?
I think the new idents show a bold new idea, but I don't think the execution, plus the use of other media for promotional purposes, has been effectively thought through to best effect.
MB
Mark B
HERE ARE MY POSTS FROM THE ALTERNATIVE FORUM, WHICH SEEMS TO BE REDUNANT NOW...
I too think Ms Hedgehog has made a short-sighted error of judgment.
Fine, so she wants to reflect the multicultural facets of Britain, and the way our great nation reaches out, and feeds from, the rest of the world.
But surely, with no common image tieing the idents together (apart from a faceless red box), then some visual device is necessary as a cornerstone for the whole set.
And, with Ms Hedgehog trying to promote the 'World Stage' image, surely somewhere, there should be a representation of.... the 'world'!? - i.e. the globe.
I had some ideas myself which I don't have the skill to execute:
1) Film people going up/down escalators. However, instead of the steps being plain steel, each step is painted with a strip from a world map - so that, as the escalators rotate, you see strips of 'world' going up/down and also coming towards/going away from you in perspective.
2) People dancing in a waterfall/fountain. On the rocks either side, outlines of countries could be engraved/sculpted in, rather like Mount Rushmore
3) Red Dancers - as they've got, but having each of them wear a leotard which is red, but with a yellow country outline on it (different on each one). They could dance around in formation, then come to rest in a group pose, whereby all of their countries line up in the correct position.
I don't think the new idents are awful, but I think Lambie-Nairn missed a big trick by not realising that keeping a continuity with the last set of idents would have contributed, not detrimented, to the brief given, and would set the new idents off with a bang.
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27th March 2002 11:56
BizMark
Forum Member
Registered: Mar 2002
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Other points
I forgot to say:
1) It doesn't matter that the BBC isn't the only global broadcaster. It certainly wasn't global in 1964 in any case. And anyway, by ditching the globe, the controller has made the channel stand out LESS from the other 'global' broadcasters, not MORE.
2) These new idents make BBC ONE look like a cheap copy of S4C, which already has live action, 'red' based idents. Thing is, S4C's idents are so much better.
MD
mdta
Just because there is no 'in your face simple to see' identity, doesnt mean there is no identity full stop.
These idents only require a little more thought to realise it is following the same ideals as the balloon, its just the balloon has been replaced by people, showing different cultures in a way we can all relate to - 'DANCE'
MB
Mark B
Quote:
mdta on 12:49 pm on Mar. 27, 2002
Just because there is no 'in your face simple to see' identity, doesnt mean there is no identity full stop.
These idents only require a little more thought to realise it is following the same ideals as the balloon, its just the balloon has been replaced by people, showing different cultures in a way we can all relate to - 'DANCE'
But people DON'T 'THINK' about idents - and why should they?
An IDENT is a visual/audible device to IDENTify a broadcasting station. It is not a programme. It is not a show. Viewers should be communicated the channel's ideals through the programmes - not through the idents. That's not what an IDENT's job was. The fact that that is what an IDENT's job has BECOME is a sad reflection of power infused with marketing confusion.
When BBC1 had a single, no-thought necessary globe ident, you knew IMMEDIATELY what channel you were watching, and it didn't matter that you didn't see people, or that there were 37 dozen variations of the COW, because that little globe reminded you of all the great programmes that that little globe was used to INTRODUCE.
If you feel you need to make your IDENTs as entertaining as your programmes, that doesn't say much FOR your programmes.
I'm sorry. IDENTs have a job to do. BBC ONE's new IDENT do not do that job. Billboard posters should be used for advertising, not IDENTS.
Mark B on 1:07 pm on Mar. 27, 2002
When BBC1 had a single, no-thought necessary globe ident, you knew IMMEDIATELY what channel you were watching,
When people see the new BBC ONE idents, they will see the logo in the bottom left.
I've shown a still to someone who isn't remotely interested, and he represents the average viewer, not someone on here who is interested in presentation, and he does think it needed a change. The balloons were getting dull, and as to a globe its getting on a bit.
I'm with Martin on this one and he has raised some important points. Lambie Nairn is a professional and knows what he is doing, he has been doing it for quite sometime.
RE
Retron
As I mentioned over on the other forum, it's interesting that these new idents are only 10 seconds long - no more long idents for the changeover into News 24 (unless they lead into one another, like Welsh 2 to Welsh 3, for example).
I wonder what they'll do when a new series is launched? Last night's 'Sinners' ident took 16 seconds, while the announcer said:
(4 seconds in to Irish 4) 'This is BBC One with powerful drama based on true events set in a ficticious location in rural Ireland in the 1960s. Telling the story of the Magdelan laundries - Sinners'
mdta on 12:49 pm on Mar. 27, 2002
Just because there is no 'in your face simple to see' identity, doesnt mean there is no identity full stop.
These idents only require a little more thought to realise it is following the same ideals as the balloon, its just the balloon has been replaced by people, showing different cultures in a way we can all relate to - 'DANCE'
But people DON'T 'THINK' about idents - and why should they?
An IDENT is a visual/audible device to IDENTify a broadcasting station. It is not a programme. It is not a show. Viewers should be communicated the channel's ideals through the programmes - not through the idents. That's not what an IDENT's job was. The fact that that is what an IDENT's job has BECOME is a sad reflection of power infused with marketing confusion.
When BBC1 had a single, no-thought necessary globe ident, you knew IMMEDIATELY what channel you were watching, and it didn't matter that you didn't see people, or that there were 37 dozen variations of the COW, because that little globe reminded you of all the great programmes that that little globe was used to INTRODUCE.
If you feel you need to make your IDENTs as entertaining as your programmes, that doesn't say much FOR your programmes.
I'm sorry. IDENTs have a job to do. BBC ONE's new IDENT do not do that job. Billboard posters should be used for advertising, not IDENTS.
So what you're actually saying is that the BBC shouldn't bother to make its their presentation even remotely intelligent; rather, IDENTs (since you seem to be getting overexcited with your CAPS LOCK) should be absolutely bloody obvious, in your face, and require no thought whatsoever on the part of the viewer to understand the brand values.
In other words, you would prefer a globe - any globe, even one of those model things from a geography classroom - with a BBC ONE logo slapped on screen.
Sorry, but IMHO, this is crap.
Even the hot air balloon required
some
thought on the part of the viewer. The concept of bringing the world to the whole of the United Kingdom wasn't immediately obvious, but it was pleasing to people when they eventually figured it out. And - however sad it may seem - it was also a little bit exciting to see a local landmark, or somewhere you had been before, as the balloon cruised majestically over it. In that way, the idents managed to both engage and entertain the viewer.
The concept that idents should simply be logo-holders with excruciatingly obvious 'communication of brand values' is wrong. It's not only patronising to the viewer, but it also exhausts the lifespan of the idents much quicker than if there actually was an element of engaging the audience on some level.
There is a
vast
scope for variety with these new idents, with countless opportunities to engage, perhaps even amuse or inspire, the audience. Don't be so dismissive simply because you've got used to something.
DD
Dolby Digital
Cheers, Nicky, just listened, she seems to be sticking to a pre-prepared script today, talking about not running ''black tape'' between the programs and that it ''reflects the BBC as a global broadcaster but in a different way''
And just to rub salt in the wound they decided to play Perfect Day directly after, typical BBC through and through!
