I think its a very stupid idea as I personally have a Freeview Pace Digital Box, and its asking for those with the old ITV or ON Digital boxes with cards, for me, its actually unfair.
If they want to broadcast the channels they want to using freeview, it shoud be free.
It fumigates me thniking about Top-Up TV as I now have to put up with extra channels with Top-Up TV adverts!
It fumigates me thniking about Top-Up TV as I now have to put up with extra channels with Top-Up TV adverts!
I believe that most DTT receivers have the facility to remove channels from the stored channel list. If you have a box with this capability, you can take full advantage of it and experience a completely "free-to-air" existence once more.
I think its a very stupid idea as I personally have a Freeview Pace Digital Box, and its asking for those with the old ITV or ON Digital boxes with cards, for me, its actually unfair.
Well there's not much they can do when they are launching a pay TV service to a market filled with FTA only boxes. If the On Digital boxes are the only kit out there with working smartcard readers, then obviously that's all they can support. Think yourself lucky that your box has a CAM slot and so could potentially receive Top Up TV with the combination of a software update to enable the CAM slot and a CAM from Top Up when they become available.
I on the other hand had a box which cannot be upgraded to support pay TV, so I had to shell out for an On Digital box.
And in any case, this situation of only OD boxes being supported is temporary; they have drummed up enough market support to start development on a box with a slot, for Pace to start writing a software update so that the Pace Twin (which does have a smartcard slot) will support Top Up, and with them working hard to get CAMs in the shops so that IDTV owners (and people with CAM slot equiped boxes like yourself) can receive it too.
12 months from now, there should be easy access to CAMs and affordable boxes, as I said above, the current situation is only temporary.
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If they want to broadcast the channels they want to using freeview, it shoud be free.
Right, this is a thread litted with posts (mainly from myself) explaining about the difference between Freeview and DTT, and explaining why most pay channels are pay channels, and how they can't just suddenly switch to being free, but we still have idiots like you bumbling in proclaiming 'i think this is stupid because i can't get it on my box so no one else should be able to either and they said freeview would be free so it's wrong to stop it from being free and this is going to be bad for freeview and i won't pay for it so no one else will either so there'.
I may not agree with the opinions arguing against Top Up, but at least some people have bothered to construct arguments against it. Unfortunately, some other people haven't bothered to do this and come back with nonsensical ravings, arguing things which are factually inaccurate (and in many cases, the facts have allready been presented in this thread if they bothered to read it), and it really does wind me up.
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It fumigates me thniking about Top-Up TV as I now have to put up with extra channels with Top-Up TV adverts!
So I take from that then that you're only 'fumigated' (hint, I think the word you were looking for is 'infuriated') because you'll be sitting down to another night of fun with FTN, whilst there will be channels there, teasing you with appearing in your channel lineup showing listings for programmes that you can't see.
Well I've said it (many, many times) before, and so i'll say it (probably not for the last time) again: you get what you pay for, and if you pay nothing, then you get very little. If you only want to pay for the one off purchase of your box then all well and good, i'm very happy for you if it delivers everything you need - I really, really wish I could be in your position and not be about to part with £7.99 a month for Top Up TV. However, if you're not, and you like the sound of the channels which Top Up will provide, then unfortunately you're going to have to bite the bullet and pay for them.
And at the end of the day, a Top Up TV subscription is the lowest priced pay TV subscription in the country, and it's available on the cushiest most non commital terms that have ever been used. As pay TV goes, it's a damn good package for it's price.
So I take from that then that you're only 'fumigated' (hint, I think the word you were looking for is 'infuriated') because you'll be sitting down to another night of fun with FTN, whilst there will be channels there, teasing you with appearing in your channel lineup showing listings for programmes that you can't see.
I don't think too many Freeviewers will be teased and tempted by the pay channels, because if they wanted pay channels they wouldn't have bought Freeview.
It's not as annoying as Sky, because on analogue they used to have the audio which did annoy me a little, and on Sky Digital they have screens saying "Subscribe to this channel, it's wonderful and you get all sorts including this programme and that programme and it's proper good."
On DTT we just get a blank screen and we manage to put up with plenty of those at the moment anyway
...and anybody that considers fumigation because television channels are teasing them needs therapy!
I don't think too many Freeviewers will be teased and tempted by the pay channels, because if they wanted pay channels they wouldn't have bought Freeview.
We'll soon see whether it's me or you that is right, and whilst I'm not for a second implying that everyone who went down the Freeview route will want to get Top Up TV, but has it occured to you that many people have bought a DTT box because, be it for technical, legal, or financial reasons, that's all they can get?
People may not have cable in the area (people with cable are often very guilty of forgetting that they are lucky to have the option of receiving TV this way and in geographical terms only a very smart part of the country has access to cable), it may not be possible to install a satellite dish where they are, or people may be moving house in 6 months time and so can't start a cable contract they won't be able to finish, or don't want the expense of getting a Sky installation moved.
Or, they may not be able to afford other forms of pay TV, all of which have much higher subscriptions, and all of which will lock them into a one year contract. Sensible people (and I can't be one of them because I'd subscribe to Sky tomorrow if I could get it) who are in a precarious financial position won't commit themselves to a year long contract if they can't be reasonably sure that they will be able to keep up the payments on it.
All of these people may therefore have heard of Freeview, thought it sounded attractive and right for them, and went out and bought themselves a shiney new FTA DTT receiver.
Whilst some people, even with the existance of Top Up TV, will undoubtedly still find Freeview is the best thing for them, others will now have an option previously unavailable to them which will allow them access to a limited pay TV service, on very favourable terms. It might suit them where for a variety of reasons other services don't, and so even though they won't subscribe to Sky or cable, they might well subscribe to Top Up TV.
I really do believe that large (by large, I don't mean millions of millions of them, but certainly a few hundred thousand - which would make Top Up work) numbers of people will be in this position and will get Top Up TV.
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It's not as annoying as Sky, because on analogue they used to have the audio which did annoy me a little, and on Sky Digital they have screens saying "Subscribe to this channel, it's wonderful and you get all sorts including this programme and that programme and it's proper good."
It was annoying, and it was only an accident of the encryption technology used that made this happen, but don't you think it was also the best way of selling channels ever?
You could hear the continuity announcer on Sky Premier introduce the latest blockbuster which you're going to have to wait years to see without the channel, you could hear everything that's going on - but you couldn't see it.
Even more annoyingly, you could see something; you knew that the entire picture was there, it was just scrambled beyond all recognition. And because of the way it worked (cutting and rotating lines, but with all the lines still in the right order) it meant that even though the image was unrecognisable, you could nevertheless make out vague hallmarks of some title sequences (i.e. with the Star Trek: DS9 titles, you'd see a predominantly black screen with a thick gold band at the top, and a thinner grey one underneath it. Although you couldn't read it, you could recognise it as being the programme logo - and if that was heralding a new episode which you'd have to wait 3 years to see on BBC2, it would be very annoying to know that this new episode is in your living room now and you could watch it now if you subscribed to the channel)
IMO, VideoCrypt played with your mind and subtlely sold channels to you in a much more effective way than modern encryption systems which either give you nothing or a text screen of channel highlights; the sense of what you were missing was very much more real in the analogue days, and I think it sold channels much more effectively - certainly back then Sky never had to resort to the upselling techniques that they employ now (when I subscribed to them and phoned up to have my viewing card activated, the first thing they did on my first phone call as a Sky customer, was to try and convince me to upgrade from the subscription I'd picked out only a week before, and then the operator managed to sound rather upset when I firmly told her no thankyou, but I don't want Sky World and I'll stick with the Sky Family Package).
I see your point, but I think I've not expressed myself well enough. What I meant to say originally was something like this:
People with ITV Digital boxes are likely to have paid for ITV Digital, and so may be willing to pay for Top Up Tv too. They won't be bothered by the channels in the EPG as they will receive them.
Those people who have Freeview because they wanted pay channels but can't have Sky/Cable will probably get Top Up Tv - so no worries for them either.
Those people who got Freeview because they didn't want pay channels and are total 'refusniks' won't really be tempted by the pay channels, and so there's no frustration for them.
Obviously, some people may see the channels in the EPG and be tempted, but I think that it's going to be a relatively low amount because of the way Freeview has been sold.
As you rightly said, the old Sky Analogue encryption was absolutely fantastic for tempting viewers! I can remember flicking through and being quite annoyed, especially when some channels would start (like Challenge in the evenings) and be unencrypted for the first three minutes, but then they would whack the encrypter on and that really was annoying.
Top Up Tv on the other hand, doesn't even have a tempting text description. All it will have is the channel name on the EPG and a blank screen.
I'm not sure about how all this works technically, but I think this is only possible because there's currently no encryption on the channels?
Once the channels are encrypted, I don't think they can have a free-to-view MHEG on it. I could be wrong, but I don't recall on digital ever having MHEG screens on their timeshare channels.
I'm not sure about how all this works technically, but I think this is only possible because there's currently no encryption on the channels?
Once the channels are encrypted, I don't think they can have a free-to-view MHEG on it. I could be wrong, but I don't recall on digital ever having MHEG screens on their timeshare channels.
As you say, I don't think it's possible for MHEG services to continue to operate for free when a channel is encrypted - just before ITV Digital collapsed Granada Plus took on an MHEG closedown screen, and that didn't appear unless you had your card in.
But, previous convention has shown that channels can be encrypted and unencrypted at will, this is what allowed Filmfour, The Adult Channel and Television X to run FTA freeviews in the past.
There is nothing to stop them, when a timeshare changes, from unencrypting the now off air channel so that it can display an MHEG screen.
Alternatively, they could easily produce an MHEG barker/information service, fulfilling the dual role of promoting the service to non subscribers, and providing information to current subscribers. Simple services like this take up tiny amounts of bandwidth, are easy to produce and maintain, and for a platform which doesn't seem able to afford much advertising (so far I've only seen Top Up TV adverts overnight and on low key channels like the ITV NC), I would've thought that a permanent promo on DTT is highly desirable.
