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ITV Schools on 4

1987-1993

NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
Off the back of this thread minus the contributor who made the fatal mistake of shouting at the big cheese (note: never do that, because there's only one winner and it won't be you Smile), there were a few interesting points in the thread that I think were worthy of further discussion. Salvage what you want out the other thread for discussion (bar being an ungrateful sod, of course).

So, ITV Schools on Channel 4. Brilliant package, fondly remembered and still looks good today. And previous discussion showed the regional opt-outs from this at the time (primarily S4C, and presumably elsewhere too on a regional basis).

So lets open the discussion: Michael mentioned in the other thread about the S4C variations of the rotating ITV logos, replaced for S4C. The quality of some of these are sometimes ropey, though I think I read that they were rotoscoped some of them, particularly for where the clock spins in over the Channel 4 logo, when that was replaced for an S4C logo. Would rotoscoping have been done for the ITV blocks as well to replace them with S4C logos, or would they would have just been reanimated?

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is: There seem to be a few variations of ITV Schools on 4 as far as S4C is concerned. Some have the ITV logos replaced with the S4C logo, some have it bottom right, others just use what Channel 4 had... Was there ever a pattern?

This is the S4C video Michael posted in the original thread:
Cold Open and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
SP
Steve in Pudsey Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I think you mean this one?



I believe that extended version was played out from S4C while waiting to rejoin C4, for example if a locally played out programme was shorter than the one the rest of the UK was seeing. I think S4C tended to cover up the C4 version in all junctions, which probably explains the fade through black in and out of programmes on C4 to give them a fighting chance of a clean junction.

I think there was an S4C Schools (as opposed to ysgolion) version for Wales specific English language programmes

Some info from the defunct SchoolsTV.com http://web.archive.org/web/20070706195050/http://www.schoolstv.com/itvschoolsons4c_vt.shtml?1
Write that down in your copybook now.
Cold Open, Ghost and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
SC
Si-Co Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
As Steve says, S4C opted out of the Channel 4 feed during every junction (except during the final year, 1992-93 when for some reason they took the C4 feed except before - and sometimes after - local programmes). They used their own roto with the “4” replaced by “S4C”, before all networked programmes and English-language HTV programmes. The “S4C Ysgolion” roto was only used before Welsh-language programmes. No mention of ITV in these junctions as most content was produced by BBC Wales. I’m not aware of an “S4C schools” version in this era - there wasn’t really any need for it - but I stand to be corrected.
Last edited by Si-Co on 22 January 2021 10:00pm
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Cold Open, Roger Darthwell and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
MK
Mr Kite Granada North West Today
Lol, just saw the original thread. The lack of self awareness from the OP is both comical and tragic.
MI
Michael
Note the 13-minute long version suffers from the out-of-sync problem I mentioned - where the Journey music stops before the roto disintegrates and Just a Minute begins, and finishes, before the neon tube starts and finishes.


Other subtle differences/observations:

The bottom right S4C crossing over the programme strap, whereas in some versions of C4 the ITVs went underneath.

The S4C YSGOLION disc on the Just a Minute sequence is obviously an overlay on top of the ITV Schools version, with a trick of the fade the ITV version is never seen.
Last edited by Michael on 23 January 2021 12:31am
SC
Si-Co Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
Note the 13-minute long version suffers from the out-of-sync problem I mentioned - where the Journey music stops before the roto disintegrates and Just a Minute begins, and finishes, before the neon tube starts and finishes.


Yes. I believe the music was played independently of the video on S4C, whereas on C4 it was edited onto the VT of the roto/clock sequence.

The 13-minute “Journey” is just two recordings edited together. This is very smooth on S4C. On the few occasions Channel 4 had to loop the music, the loop point was different and very jarring and obvious. At about 05:44 on this rough reconstruction:

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NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
Si-Co posted:
Note the 13-minute long version suffers from the out-of-sync problem I mentioned - where the Journey music stops before the roto disintegrates and Just a Minute begins, and finishes, before the neon tube starts and finishes.


Yes. I believe the music was played independently of the video on S4C, whereas on C4 it was edited onto the VT of the roto/clock sequence.

The 13-minute “Journey” is just two recordings edited together. This is very smooth on S4C. On the few occasions Channel 4 had to loop the music, the loop point was different and very jarring and obvious. At about 05:44 on this rough reconstruction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JYe6oqWGcQ


I know that's marked as a recreation but I would hope anything that went out on air didn't sound as clunky as that.

This is a better reconstruction, extended to near enough half an hour, thanks to clean clips:


And aimed squarely at the thread that got closed:
*
SC
Si-Co Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
Si-Co posted:
Note the 13-minute long version suffers from the out-of-sync problem I mentioned - where the Journey music stops before the roto disintegrates and Just a Minute begins, and finishes, before the neon tube starts and finishes.


Yes. I believe the music was played independently of the video on S4C, whereas on C4 it was edited onto the VT of the roto/clock sequence.

The 13-minute “Journey” is just two recordings edited together. This is very smooth on S4C. On the few occasions Channel 4 had to loop the music, the loop point was different and very jarring and obvious. At about 05:44 on this rough reconstruction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JYe6oqWGcQ


I know that's marked as a recreation but I would hope anything that went out on air didn't sound as clunky as that.


It actually DID sound 99% as clunky as that on C4, which was the point I was making by reconstructing/posting it! As opposed to the seamless S4C version and the other excellent “mock” you posted.
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NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
My bad, I didn't realise that that was yours, I thought somebody else had done it. Sorry. Embarassed

However this other video on your channel was quite interesting I thought, where the vision mixing broke down over the clock from 8:38:
Last edited by Neil Jones on 23 January 2021 11:11am - 3 times in total
HC
Hatton Cross Central (West) Midlands Today
For the first time in my life, I've heard a very strong simliarity between the ITV schools music played over the roto and the first ITV Telethon theme. I'm guessing they were composed by the same musican (Mr D Dundas?)

Like that unintentional 'fade to black' in the video. Nice irony it was just before Stop Look Listen - strongly suspect that was exactly what was going on in TX playout for the rest of that junction!
Packing my boxes up here on TV Forum, and getting the roadmaps out to find my way over to TV Live from Thursday April 1st
DE
deejay Oxford
For the first time in my life, I've heard a very strong simliarity between the ITV schools music played over the roto and the first ITV Telethon theme. I'm guessing they were composed by the same musican (Mr D Dundas?)


The itv schools intervals pieces The Journey and Just a Minute were both credited to James Aldenham, which is an alias of prolific tv theme composer and The Shadows drummer Brian Bennett.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Bennett
Two minutes regions...
Hatton Cross and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
RO
robertclark125 Central Reporting Scotland
Mentioning opt outs, in 1989 I think, there was an opt out in Scotland, and the interval before the Scotland only programme was about eight or nine minutes. The reason I think they had such long intervals on the opt outs, was so that the programme would come to an end at about the same time the national programme ended. Basically, as short a time as possible before rejoining national continuity.

Actually, someone once suggested the Scottish opts were handled by Grampian, not STV. Was that right, and if so, would that explain us in the STV area on C4 getting on screen glitches before the scottish ITV schools on 4 continuity?

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