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Spencer (previously Spencer For Hire) 5,898 posts since 13 Jan 2003
Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Were LWT local trailers made by the Leeds team during this era or still made locally? If it’s the former, what style of endboard did they use, one matching the network trailers?

The timetables of the development of the hearts and the YTV local ident is a mystery to me, it’s interesting that on one hand we are told the ident was supposed to be for all junctions (hence why they made a million versions) but then on the other hand the background of this ident was so similar to the hearts background as if they were meant to compliment each other.

Also that they’d already made Christmas versions for everyone, but hadn’t made normal versions for everyone. All quite odd.


Also very strange that they'd launch a completely new look and logo for Tyne Tees which didn't match the heart idents at all, and without updating the logo on the hearts.

Wasn't Oktane called something like Ballistix when it was owned by Yorkshire?


I do remember Ballistix. The Oktane site appears to be all the work of Rob Curtis. Maybe he previously worked for Ballistix.
ttt
Were LWT local trailers made by the Leeds team during this era or still made locally? If it’s the former, what style of endboard did they use, one matching the network trailers?

The timetables of the development of the hearts and the YTV local ident is a mystery to me, it’s interesting that on one hand we are told the ident was supposed to be for all junctions (hence why they made a million versions) but then on the other hand the background of this ident was so similar to the hearts background as if they were meant to compliment each other.

Also that they’d already made Christmas versions for everyone, but hadn’t made normal versions for everyone. All quite odd.


Also very strange that they'd launch a completely new look and logo for Tyne Tees which didn't match the heart idents at all, and without updating the logo on the hearts.


They did a broadly similar thing with Border as well -- I'm pretty sure the purple Granada endcaps were introduced during the hearts area, and Border thus had two entirely different "logos" (the old chopsticks one on the endboard and the name of the region in the old ITV font on idents).

It all goes back to the basic point that ITV never really gave a second thought to companies outside the big five, and certainly not to the minnows.
1
Spencer For Hire gave kudos
Mr Kite890 posts since 15 Aug 2007
Granada North West Today
It was a YTV decision to have local idents before programmes and TT was dragged along with that decision (the company was still set up as Yorkshire-Tyne Tees at this point, and quite a lot of YTV stuff was still pushed out in the North East despite the takeover, like some shared "regional" programmes across the two regions, the Indian films, Jobfinder and even some YTV CSAs etc). As to why Granada didn't bother I suspect that was a decision by Granada as their views did still carry weight..


I very much doubt there wereany specific Yorkshire/Tyne Tees/Granada views by that point. They'd had centralised presentation together for over a year and Yorkshire & Tyne Tees had been together for a fair few years before that. There would've been one team calling the shots for all three stations.

Also (RE: Larry The Loafer) : the hearts were the idea of the ITV Network Centre (not Granada), who'd hoped all ITV companies would get on board with a common dual branding exercise. STV, Grampian & UTV said no from the start. Carlton were initially on board but gave up after disagreements with GMG & UNM about the design of the idents; the orignial set were scheduled to launch with the new logo in October 1998 but were shelved late on. With Carlton going their own way, GMG North assumed the project was dead so started on their own ones, only for the Network Centre to have something knocked up, based on previous prototypes, at short notice.
Last edited by Mr Kite on 6 June 2019 12:23am
1
Spencer For Hire gave kudos
Mr Kite890 posts since 15 Aug 2007
Granada North West Today
Were LWT local trailers made by the Leeds team during this era or still made locally? If it’s the former, what style of endboard did they use, one matching the network trailers?

The timetables of the development of the hearts and the YTV local ident is a mystery to me, it’s interesting that on one hand we are told the ident was supposed to be for all junctions (hence why they made a million versions) but then on the other hand the background of this ident was so similar to the hearts background as if they were meant to compliment each other.

Also that they’d already made Christmas versions for everyone, but hadn’t made normal versions for everyone. All quite odd.


Not sure about LWT trailers. I think they were largely separate but it's likely GMG North sent them stuff too. I recall watching Anglia post-GMG takeover (December 2001) and hearing Bob Preedy talking over a trailer for a regional soccer show. Hearing him say "On Anglia" was quite a novelty.

As for the YTV local idents: the replacement to the original aborted hearts idents that were to launch in October 1998 was being worked on with Carlton on board, until some point in mid-99. The prototypes produced were broadly similar in concept to the final ones i.e. live action film, then regional logo plus ITV underneath it on a spinning hearts background. Carlton weren't happy, got fed up of the bickering and walked; however, they took the prototypes to Lambie-Nairn to use as a basis for their own idents which were launched in September.

Presumably, the idents were hoped to be ready for a launch to coincide with the beginning of the Autumn season. With no sign of the idents plus Carlton launching their own versions, it would've been reasonable for GMG North to assume that the common network design was dead and so followed Cartlon's lead in designing their own versions.

Eventually, GMG, UNM, Border & Channel ironed out their disagreements over the prototypes. They were made lighter, both in brightness and atmosphere. UNM wanted the Anglia & Merdian logos in their natural colours, rather than monochrome yellow (which GMG decided was appropriate for LWT also). UNM also wanted the ANGLIA & MERIDIAN legends to be much bigger and so they were altered for those two stations specifically. Channel had launched their own take on the hearts theme earlier that summer (replacing the CTV logo) and wanted their logo to animate like it did on their existing idents, as well as retaining the music. Border wanted rid of their logo (for some weird reason). Clearly no one in the offices of high management at GMG bothered to keep the Northern presentation team in the loop with developments.

As for the design of the Yorkshire local idents: it shouldn't be assumed they were what would've been the final product. Although I think the spinning Chevrons would've been used for the background, they may well have used different styles and colours, like Cartlon's did (and to some extent, the Christmas idents).. Also, the music was identical on all of them and rather boring. Seems like it was knocked up last minute.

The Christmas idents would've been easier to make as they were identical, apart from the logo. Granada & Tyne Tees' normal idents would've required locations relevant to their respective regions for the film shots, plus the Yorkshire fanfare couldn't have been used. Clearly, these hadn't been filmed yet. I do wonder if the two note signature used on the Christmas idents was closer to what they were planning to use across all three stations on the standard idents.

As to the OP's question, it's a mystery to me too why Tyne Tees were allowed to retain their existing ident for local junctions whereas Granada had to use the hearts only. There are only a few differences I can see between Granada and Tyne Tees: firstly, Granada's ident was a lot older. Granada had several idents rather than just the one with a nighttime variant. Tyne Tees had recently suffered the terrible Channel 3 North East brand and maybe GMG didn't want its brand awareness compromised too much. The Granada arrow logo's official colour was white, up until that point, which clashed with the yellow hearts version. Tyne Tees' was yellow. Not that that stopped worse inconsistency with the new Tyne Tees idents produced in 2000; which are even more of a mystery, considering they use a redesigned TTTV logo and it was clear at this point that the hearts were here to stay and that the new idents would not be used outside of the ever-dwindling number of regional junctions.

It's a shame after all these years, such mysteries are still unsolved. You'd have thought by now someone would've turned up who had worked on these idents or was close enough to the operation to have known about what happened. Maybe someday, all will become clear, Don't hold your breath though.
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Brekkie31,981 posts since 4 Jan 2003
HTV Wales Wales Today
Yes, never understood why Border lost it's chopsticks when they could easily have been stuck in a box like the other GMG logos were.

The most baffling thing about the ITV GMG Hearts idents though is of all the variations that have cropped up over the years, the ones that actually were used were easily the worst.
I preferred the internet when it had a sense of humour.
Whataday10,110 posts since 13 Sep 2001
HTV Wales Wales Today
Of course, they weren't just GMG hearts as UNM regions used the same.

I remember when it was announced that Carlton nabbed HTV (after the other UNM regions went to Granada) I was on the NotBBC TV Forum and many feared for its identity because it was assumed it would become Carlton Wales & West. Little did we know HTV had the best end of the deal as not only was the name retained but we gained Carlton's stunning idents and slick presentation. Meanwhile, the Granada regions had clunky bland presentation for several years.
VMPhil9,826 posts since 31 Mar 2005
Granada North West Today
Yes, never understood why Border lost it's chopsticks when they could easily have been stuck in a box like the other GMG logos were.

The most baffling thing about the ITV GMG Hearts idents though is of all the variations that have cropped up over the years, the ones that actually were used were easily the worst.

From the old TV Archive site: ‘As with everything, you have to try, try and try again before something becomes right. Unfortunately ITV missed this concept and tried, got it right, then tried again.... and subsequently delivered blue spinning hearts.’
Andrew13,705 posts since 27 Mar 2001
Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Yes, never understood why Border lost it's chopsticks when they could easily have been stuck in a box like the other GMG logos were.

I’m guessing Border management saw it as dated and not worth keeping

Border were not owned by Granada at that time so wouldn’t be interested in any consistency with other regions.

When Granada introduced the purple logos, they will have wanted consistency so brought it back.

Meanwhile, the Granada regions had clunky bland presentation for several years.

Of course the entire hearts era only lasted 3 years and the bland ‘lines only’ era was a fraction of that. Seemed like an age in those days when presentation changed much more often, but these days it’d only be a foot note!