TV Home Forum

This Morning Breakdown

Split from ITV Programming Thread (November 2017)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
GE
thegeek Founding member
Rkolsen posted:
Surprised one backup wasn’t satellite especially with several hours of live programming going out each day. Use same transponder for the TLS programs and later for ITV News.

Some excerpts from the ITV Delivery Guidelines:

Quote:
Production companies providing live programming will be responsible for providing as a minimum two circuits from the remote OB location or studio to a specified ITV handover point. Those two circuits shall be designated as Main and Backup and must be separate and diverse from each other. The Main circuit should always be delivered via fibre where possible.

The route taken and connectivity provider are at the production company’s discretion but the quality and robustness of these paths should be carefully considered as they form part of the contract SLA.

The Backup circuit where possible should also be delivered via fibre, but for the sake of resilience and redundancy it is ITV policy that this circuit be completely separate and diversely routed from the Main path from the point of origin to Ericsson. Routing both circuits via any of the same infrastructure would constitute a single point of failure, which would be unacceptable to ITV. If a second, fully diverse fibre based circuit is unavailable the Backup circuit may be delivered via satellite.


For comparison, the BBC don't require a backup for daytime programmes:
Quote:
OPTION A: Programmes with a major UK and International public interest
Main and Backup links are geographically and electrically separate as far as possible. Where satellite is used, there are two separately located uplink trucks, powered differently from each other.
The source should be able to continue in some form, during a break down or power loss affecting some facilities.

OPTION B: Live Primetime Programmes (e.g. Saturday early evening)
Main and Backup links and power supplies have some commonality, which creates an accepted single-point-of-failure risk. Reserve links could be lower quality or even SD. A reserve power supply should be available however it only need be capable of supplying the minimum infrastructure to keep some of the programme on air.

OPTION C: All other programmes including live links into studio programmes
A single link, with no backup is acceptable. There only need be minimal alternate power supply and mobile phones can be used as alternate comms.
EL
elmarko
BAU?
GM
Gary McEwan
elmarko posted:
BAU?


Business As Usual.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Whataday posted:
Anyone remember that failure about 15 years ago which meant certain feeds could be picked up on Sky boxes and we got to see the studio feed of several live shows including a very grumpy Richard & Judy during the ad breaks?

It wasn't so much a failure, just that certain feeds got left connected after something else had finished.
BR
Brekkie
Jonwo87 posted:
I expect that Holly and Phil will quit together when the time comes. I imagine ITV has a list of people who they can replace them with as a contingency plan.

And three months later Eamonn and Ruth will step in to replace ITV's first choice.
JO
Jonwo
Brekkie posted:
Jonwo87 posted:
I expect that Holly and Phil will quit together when the time comes. I imagine ITV has a list of people who they can replace them with as a contingency plan.

And three months later Eamonn and Ruth will step in to replace ITV's first choice.


I can't see ITV repeating the Colleen and Twiggy disaster again. I imagine they'll go for safe options like Ben Shephard, Dermot O'Leary, Jake Humphrey on the male presenter and Emma Willis, Christine Lampard, Angela Scanlon on the female side maybe even Amanda Holden,
Last edited by Jonwo on 22 November 2017 8:29pm
RK
Rkolsen
Markymark posted:


Talking to someone today, it was the TLS to BT Tower link that failed ( they say)


That sounds interesting. Especially if their links to ITN are routed via the BT tower.



thegeek posted:

Some excerpts from the ITV Delivery Guidelines:

Quote:
Production companies providing live programming will be responsible for providing as a minimum two circuits from the remote OB location or studio to a specified ITV handover point. Those two circuits shall be designated as Main and Backup and must be separate and diverse from each other. The Main circuit should always be delivered via fibre where possible.

The route taken and connectivity provider are at the production company’s discretion but the quality and robustness of these paths should be carefully considered as they form part of the contract SLA.

The Backup circuit where possible should also be delivered via fibre, but for the sake of resilience and redundancy it is ITV policy that this circuit be completely separate and diversely routed from the Main path from the point of origin to Ericsson. Routing both circuits via any of the same infrastructure would constitute a single point of failure, which would be unacceptable to ITV. If a second, fully diverse fibre based circuit is unavailable the Backup circuit may be delivered via satellite.




I want to know if TLS has separate rooms where fiber lines come and go and whether they can assure there’s a seperate path.

Also how long would it take to get a satellite truck deployed in the event of breakdown? Not a full on OB truck but one that’s used for SNG gathering (the Sprinter variety) and plug a SDI control room output into its encoder.
Last edited by Rkolsen on 22 November 2017 8:04pm
HA
harshy Founding member
Whataday posted:
Anyone remember that failure about 15 years ago which meant certain feeds could be picked up on Sky boxes and we got to see the studio feed of several live shows including a very grumpy Richard & Judy during the ad breaks?

Yeah I remember watching a feed of LNN, quite astonished at the time to see the London news studio at various times of the day, I think there was even a feed from ITN as well showed Newsnet and other material.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
It's not the first time ITN has come to the rescue - didn't they play out Lorraine when there was a fire at TLS which took GMB off the air?

And one one occasion they got The Big Breakfast on the air when their SHF midpoint failed (as Chris Evans explained with the aid of a badly drawn diagram)
BL
bluecortina
But it isn’t always a one way street! TLS have bailed out ITN when they had to evacuate their premises and go over to the Southbank to produce a Saturday early evening bulletin one day. In the end they were just able to produce the bulletin at ITN at the last minute, but it was a close run thing!
scottishtv and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
IS
Inspector Sands
Rkolsen posted:

Also how long would it take to get a satellite truck deployed in the event of breakdown? Not a full on OB truck but one that’s used for SNG gathering (the Sprinter variety) and plug a SDI control room output into its encoder.

It depends on how far away the nearest available truck and operator is. AFAIK there's none based at the studios themselves, I'm not sure if ITN's live at their studios which are not that far away.


Then there's how they'd actually get a tie line out of the studio or MCR into a truck. That's not as easy as it sounds, even if there's a wallbox near where the truck can park, how easy is it to patch the feed to it? And of course the time it take to secure some satellite space (unless ITV/N have some pretty booked for adhoc uplinks). And if the playout centre doesn't have a dish (or not one pointing at the right satellite) then downlink and circuit would need organising

It would take a while I'd have thought, it's not necessarily the actual technical set up but the logistics of organising everyone and booking stuff. In the case of This Morning, which runs for 2 hours, I doubt it would be worth while if the process started while it was on air
Last edited by Inspector Sands on 22 November 2017 9:34pm - 3 times in total
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Apparently they used to keep an ancient links truck parked at the back of the tower, ready to be driven to some convenient high ground to help get back on air if the lines failed. As happened when they were building the Museum of the Moving Image and a JCB pulled up all of the circuits. Apparently BT, the BBC, ITN and Thames all pitched in to get some basic connectivity up and running and get LWT back on the air.

Newer posts