BBC Sport - new graphics (Reith font)

The simplest solution would be for each channel to be represented by a colour. So on the cross promotional menus, a red box with no text means BBC1, teal for 2, black for 4, pink i for iPlayer, and a red circle for Red Button.

But seriously, I think the solution used at present was a best effort. A best effort that is the most accurate in terms of visual accessibility.

Since nations started rebranding trails, it has at least enabled the accuracy of saying "it says 'BBC ONE Wales' etc. on screen, it'll be on your very own BBC One Wales channel. It says just 'BBC One', it might not be on at that time, or day, or even that channel". That trail might run on the News Channel, BBC FOUR or outside staffed hours in a nation when network continuity occasionally airs.

Factor in also the whole BBC TWO HD situation, where "TWO" can't accurately reflect the channel showing live sport in a nation for example, because if you pick the wrong one, you might find you'll get a completely different schedule.

Reducing 'Northern Ireland' to a pedantically inconsistent "NI" seems to be an unfortunate result of the size that the graphic is going to be displayed at in some circumstances, some of which look very small on screen.

Player names could do with a drop shadow there. It would've fixed the readability issue with Oxlade-Chamberlain. Or use the alternate backdrop, which is blue.

Exactly. Very well put.

Just a reminder here to treat other members with respect. Disagreeing is fine, borderline personal attacks aren't.

Interesting.



And, as Denton has pointed out, your solution would result in inconsistent branding of BBC One in Northern Ireland. Not really heading in the right direction there, are we?



Can we try and keep things civil please!?

I think the future of the BBC Northern Ireland brand - at least in terms of the on-screen channel branding on BBC One Northern Ireland and BBC Two Northern Ireland - is in very good hands with the pres team at BBC Northern Ireland. They do an excellent job, given the parameters they have to operate within. I don't believe I've read anything here which in any way improves on the current solution.

Jon, I would say you're verging on getting a little to personal with this last bit, I understand you are making your point, but don't singlehandly blame one person if they disagree with you.

I didn't expect an idea to lead to heated discussion. I wasn't advocating a removal of regional or nations branding. Just consolidating it for promotional graphics where there would be repetition, or cross promotions which will only be seen in the nation it is designed for.

The image above is an example. If anything, I think it adds more emphasis on the region/nation.

Graphically I like what you've done, I always do.

In branding terms however, it visually changes the channel name... and creates repetition of the BBC blocks, plus the addition of more screen-clutter in the form a BBC NI symbol.

You're right, it does add additional emphasis to the Nation name (but to a programme not produced by that Nation), whilst simultaneously removing the Nation from the channel name, creating inconsistency with other trails which will still have the Nation name on the BBC One logo.

That's exactly what I was suggesting before. Looks great.

Late to the party on this one, but going back to the original

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc1-ni-sport-02.png

For me the bigger issue is the reference to the non existent brand "One NI". I suggest that this is more likely to lead to confusion and weakening of brands than just keeping the network graphics and referencing NI in a local voiceover.

It is very common for Sport programmes to trail ahead to the next coverage as they close the programme and never make any reference to the nations sub-brands (apart from "viewers in Scotland can see Sportscene instead").

Basically, the trail design is crap because all the compromises (both real and mocked up) don’t work.

There's nothing wrong with the trail design as such. It's very difficult to accommodate all the different scenarios that we've talked about.

Martin's example above - although it looks well - couldn't be used on a cross-promotional graphic, featuring, for example, BBC Four.

All logos now need to be capable of working at small sizes (internet usage - social media etc etc). Unfortunately, regional identifier text doesn't look great or indeed, legible, at those very small sizes. Even on screen, if we take the ECP box logos - the 'Scotland' in the BBC One Scotland logo box is very difficult to make out. And the 'Northern Ireland' text just looks uncomfortably tight in those boxed logos for BBC One/Two. Generally, those boxed logos don't work well for Scotland, Wales and NI.

Although I do believe the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish brands are important, I don't believe what we have at present serves those brands well. The BBC One and BBC Two logos clearly were not designed with the regions in mind.

Could the regional text be dropped from the channel logos completely? And would a quick BBC NI or BBC Scotland logo sting prior to trails (which is done at present in Scotland and NI anyway) and idents - and accompanied by local voiceover - be a better solution? It's not entirely foreign territory - BBC NI used network branded idents and local voiceover on BBC Two for a lengthy period between 2001 and 2007.

Should we be too concerned about graphics which cover programming on BBC One/Two and Four? Doesn't happen THAT often anyway.