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VMPhil8,057 posts since 31 Mar 2005
Granada North West Today
That BBC logo was introduced in 1987 but not used on air regularly until 1990 and not in the channel logos till 1991.

But then things weren't consistent in the past, it's a relatively new concept.

The changes made to the BBC's copyright logo can be tracked all through one show that was on air long enough to see all the changes made in the 90s, One Foot in the Grave… starting with the first series that was produced in 1989 but shown in 1990, still using the old logo.


(click images for full size)

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Then later in 1990 the new logo and font started being used. This lasted until the 1997 rebrand.

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However from 1992/3 an additional, larger BBC logo was added to the end of programmes. Here are the main three designs for this show (the drop shadow on the logo on the first design varies literally episode by episode!)

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In the 1997 rebrand, it was stipulated that the copyright text (© BBC XXXXX) would not use the BBC logo but spell out 'BBC' in Gill Sans, and the logo would only appear separately above it. (Unfortunately OFITG gained a separate producer and director from 1997 and so the BBC logo gets awkwardly positioned once again…)

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Those titles were a good investment weren't they? Didn't even need to make any adjustments for widescreen…

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If you want to see every endcap from every episode of OFITG and marvel at the minor differences in almost every episode then click here: https://imgur.com/a/4V9d3

EDIT: fixed wrong full-sized image link
Last edited by VMPhil on 3 August 2017 4:00pm
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noggin12,684 posts since 26 Jun 2001
The main reason for the BBC logo having different drop shadow effects etc. is almost certainly a different Aston operator (or editor operating an Aston) did them, or if the drop was added in a vision mixer, the editor chose a different amount of drop to add...
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nodnirG kraM2,315 posts since 26 Mar 2001 Recently warned
STV North BBC Persia
The main reason for the BBC logo having different drop shadow effects etc. is almost certainly a different Aston operator (or editor operating an Aston) did them, or if the drop was added in a vision mixer, the editor chose a different amount of drop to add...

Very true, but even if the editor was the same throughout the series, the likelihood of him/her selecting the same amount/direction of drop on the mixer even twice ever is remote. Particularly with the pissingly annoyingly fiddly knobs on the average GVG.
'e were a great baker, ma grandad.
Inspector Sands11,448 posts since 25 Aug 2004
That first big BBC logo was obviously placed in the top right because the credits were finished before they were required to have the logo. That's the only place on the screen it could go
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Robert Williams614 posts since 25 Jan 2003
London London
That first big BBC logo was obviously placed in the top right because the credits were finished before they were required to have the logo. That's the only place on the screen it could go

On the 1992 Last of the Summer Wine series I'm watching on DVD, the big logo fades in a few seconds after the copyright notice and other text on the screen, rather than appearing at the same time as it later would, so perhaps this was also added in at a late stage after the credits were made.
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VMPhil8,057 posts since 31 Mar 2005
Granada North West Today
That first big BBC logo was obviously placed in the top right because the credits were finished before they were required to have the logo. That's the only place on the screen it could go


That first big BBC logo was obviously placed in the top right because the credits were finished before they were required to have the logo. That's the only place on the screen it could go

On the 1992 Last of the Summer Wine series I'm watching on DVD, the big logo fades in a few seconds after the copyright notice and other text on the screen, rather than appearing at the same time as it later would, so perhaps this was also added in at a late stage after the credits were made.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that before. I'll have to get the DVD out and see if it fades in later than the normal credits. (Took these screenshots a few years ago).
Robert Williams614 posts since 25 Jan 2003
London London
Looking at the LOTSW credits again, it looks almost certain that the addition of the big logo is an afterthought, judging by the positioning in some cases, and the lack of the drop shadow that appears on the rest of the credits. Whereas on the end credits of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo and Keeping Up Appearances that were also broadcast in autumn 1992, it's clear that the big logo was included all along.

Other logo oddities, and going back to LOTSW again, some of the episodes that were made in the mid-90s, and were shown in 4:3 on television, appear on DVD in 16:9, and a few of them have had their credits remade, complete with the 1997 BBC logo, so it's strange to see that logo with a 1995 date.

Also, I'm sure I remember seeing at some point in mid-1997 on the end of the programme the new BBC logo - but slanted! I had already seen what the new logo was going to look like, so I was somewhat surprised to see it looking like that. It looked as if someone had got hold of the new logo early, and had slanted it in an attempt to make it look like the old one. I'm sure I didn't dream this!
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VMPhil8,057 posts since 31 Mar 2005
Granada North West Today
LOTSW was shot entirely on film wasn't it? So it makes sense they could go back and remaster it for widescreen and potentially HD.

They didn't happen to be shown in 14:9 originally did they? The Granada series Cracker was shown that way and so it looks a bit naff on 16:9 TVs now, surprised they haven't remastered it if only for that reason.
Robert Williams614 posts since 25 Jan 2003
London London
LOTSW was shot entirely on film wasn't it? So it makes sense they could go back and remaster it for widescreen and potentially HD.

They didn't happen to be shown in 14:9 originally did they? The Granada series Cracker was shown that way and so it looks a bit naff on 16:9 TVs now, surprised they haven't remastered it if only for that reason.

There was some discussion about this on a LOTSW forum a few years ago when the DVD came out. Someone compared an off-air screencap with one from the DVD, and the conclusion was that those episodes would have been shot on Super 16mm film which has an aspect ratio of 15:9, with the sides being cropped to 4:3 for broadcast, and the top and bottom cropped to 16:9 for the DVD.
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james-20012,160 posts since 13 Sep 2015
Central (East) East Midlands Today
LOTSW was shot entirely on film wasn't it?


Well, after 1992 it was, before then it was the usual film video mix, bar the 1991 series which was entirely on video (and also the last to be made in front of an audience).

Also interesting noting the 1992-98 editions were clearly not just shot on film, but edited on film too- quite obvious with the credits with their scratches, grain and weave, often independent of the picture behind it (as video credits would be clean and static, as they were on the show from 1999 onwards). Very strange to see a scratchy, weavy optical film version of the 1990s BBC logo copyright dates.

When you see the 90s editions on Gold, it seems to be a mix of some episodes in 4:3 and some in 14:9, seems to be fairly random from one episode to the next. There's quite a lot of 90s 16mm shot shows that are in 14:9- and still go out that way presumably because that's how they are on the master tapes!
Last edited by james-2001 on 3 August 2017 8:34pm
VMPhil8,057 posts since 31 Mar 2005
Granada North West Today

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that before. I'll have to get the DVD out and see if it fades in later than the normal credits. (Took these screenshots a few years ago).



In case anyone was wondering, the big logo appears at the same time as the rest of the credits. (This video also shows how the counters in the 1988 logo disappeared at such small sizes).

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noggin12,684 posts since 26 Jun 2001
The main reason for the BBC logo having different drop shadow effects etc. is almost certainly a different Aston operator (or editor operating an Aston) did them, or if the drop was added in a vision mixer, the editor chose a different amount of drop to add...

Very true, but even if the editor was the same throughout the series, the likelihood of him/her selecting the same amount/direction of drop on the mixer even twice ever is remote. Particularly with the pissingly annoyingly fiddly knobs on the average GVG.


And the chance of an emem surviving (or even being in the same suite?) would be quite low I'd imagine. Can't image anyone would have saved that kind of a thing to a floppy if you had a GVG200 in the suite...