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BBC Oneness - idents and presentation

"Watch this space" as BBC Creative respond to ident change request (December 2016)

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JO
Jonny
I didn't realise it would be for every junction

Would suggest you take a look at the director's Points West interview aired yesterday - sounds like neither he nor the participants realised/fully appreciated the extent to which these will be seen again and again.


Perhaps the penny might have belatedly dropped that these things do need to be a bit more versatile, mood setting and repeatable, for the ones yet to be produced...
JA
JAS84
I believe the last 2 sets before the Circles; that is, Rhythm and Movement and the Balloon; had sound motifs.

Yeah, the last full time BBC1 ident without music was the 1991 version. Especially odd since BBC2's idents had music and so would BBC1's Christmas idents.
JO
Joe
Jonny posted:
I didn't realise it would be for every junction

Would suggest you take a look at the director's Points West interview aired yesterday - sounds like neither he nor the participants realised/fully appreciated the extent to which these will be seen again and again.


Perhaps the penny might have belatedly dropped that these things do need to be a bit more versatile, mood setting and repeatable, for the ones yet to be produced...

I think this is probably the main problem with these idents. To be completely honest with you, I don't think they're utterly utterly awful; as a 'temporary' rebrand (perhaps for a year), they'd be okay - but I think one of two things needed to happen for that to work. (1) they needed to film many more of them, so that there was a variety and they actually went some way towards portraying Britain or (2) they need to leave them in the mix with the circles, so that they were a simple addition to the set that added variety - and actually, quite a nice bit of variety. Of course, then we have the problem of consistency (such as where the logo goes - remember big logo vs. little logo on the last ITV1 idents?) and a soundtrack wouldn't go amiss, but they really wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Speaking of which, there's been an awful lot of utter crap in this thread. The way some people have spoken has really annoyed me at times.

- The lack of likes compared to views on the video linked to here speaks volumes. Nobody in the real world cares. I'm not saying a good brand isn't important for BBC One, and I'm not saying there is no merit in discussing it, but some people really have lost perspective.
- People's idea of bringing back the balloons, or the myriad ideas for alternatives shows why Gluben's idea of starting a TV presentation company (which I cannot even slightly imagine being financially viable, let alone successful or a producer of good work) is a terrible idea
- Can't find it now but there was a gloriously ridiculous post about people losing their jobs over this. Honestly, what a load of nonsense. These are the same people complaining about 'marketing BS'. If you had people hypothetically sacking you every five minutes, I'm sure you'd try to justify your thought processes too
- Repetition of the same one-liners every couple of pages, getting increasingly tortured each time

What I'm saying is, regret the previous 'Circles' idents going, say the current idents aren't very good, yes. But don't give yourself high blood pressure or lose sight of real world perspective in doing so. Seriously. I promise you it isn't worth it.
NB
NextBigThing
Jonny posted:
I didn't realise it would be for every junction

Would suggest you take a look at the director's Points West interview aired yesterday - sounds like neither he nor the participants realised/fully appreciated the extent to which these will be seen again and again.


Perhaps the penny might have belatedly dropped that these things do need to be a bit more versatile, mood setting and repeatable, for the ones yet to be produced...


Having just watched the Points West interview, I am a little more reassured about the whole thing. It seems that the expectation is that the 'oneness' campaign will only run for 2017 and that, apart from 2 other idents that have been filmed in Wales (which I assume will be the wheelchair rugby team and Brecon Beacons rescuers to be shown in February), no others have yet been filmed.

Not only does this mean that we will likely only have to put up with them for a year, but that any future unfilmed idents might be improved upon as the creative team adjust their approach following audience reaction to the disappointing first set.

Imagine if they had spent huge sums on filming all of them already and we then had to be stuck with them for 4 or 5 years like the Rhythm & Movement set?!! At least they are likely to make way for something new next January, by which time there may be a BBC-wide rebrand underway, or key personnel might have moved on and the whole approach could very well change again.

As I said in a previous post, perhaps this year-long campaign is an experiment by the BBC to move to cheaper but more frequently changing ident packages (after the last 10 years of one package), or it might just be timed as a stop-gap to fill 12 months until a much larger cross channel revamp. Don't forget that, after the expense of the Olympics last year, the BBC might not have had as much money to spend on rolling out a new permanent package with the production standards we've come to expect. Hopefully this is a ''lull" year and something much better is not too far around the corner.

Incidentally, Campaign Live website has also picked-up on the story and confirmed the collaboration with Martin Parr is only for 1 year. Also, very interestingly, apart from the involvement of Martin Parr, the creative people involved in the current campaign are the same as those for the Christmas Day idents.
Last edited by NextBigThing on 5 January 2017 5:05pm
:-(
A former member
I have also managed to see that point west interview, Iam NOT reassured, about this whole conpect which really does scream like WA12 concept meeting,. How can we make people think BBC ONE is thier channel, i know lets create idents with those people which reflect modern Britain. Neither of those two idents I say reflect modern Britain. I can't see how the rest will, since its just groups of people being close doing so called modern things, how does that link into BBC1? Oneness idents to show off different people coming together that are not even Representative of the programmes. I'm not close to BBC1 its just bizarre. Whats next Gamers on lan party???

I cant say we can blame Parr for this he just did what he was told to do. ONENESS what on earth does that mean, its crap, and the Circles are not gone since we still have those two res idents plus the Red stings which force on Circles are still being made.

BBC need to get its head out of its backside and it promote the channel of the UK, not to appease the people of Britain or the Goverment.
Last edited by A former member on 5 January 2017 5:23pm
GL
Gluben
Joe posted:
- People's idea of bringing back the balloons, or the myriad ideas for alternatives shows why Gluben's idea of starting a TV presentation company (which I cannot even slightly imagine being financially viable, let alone successful or a producer of good work) is a terrible idea


Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you with my idea! Realistically, of course I don't think I could even think of forming a TV presentation company. Sure, it's a nice pipe dream, but I'm obviously not going to do it.

I guess it's like when you ask fans to come up with a piece of work for their favourite artist or TV show; inevitably, it's awful.

Again, no harm meant!
RE
Rex
Jonny posted:
I didn't realise it would be for every junction

Would suggest you take a look at the director's Points West interview aired yesterday - sounds like neither he nor the participants realised/fully appreciated the extent to which these will be seen again and again.


Perhaps the penny might have belatedly dropped that these things do need to be a bit more versatile, mood setting and repeatable, for the ones yet to be produced...


Having just watched the Points West interview, I am a little more reassured about the whole thing. It seems that the expectation is that the 'oneness' campaign will only run for 2017 and that, apart from 2 other idents that have been filmed in Wales (which I assume will be the wheelchair rugby team and Brecon Beacons rescuers to be shown in February), no others have yet been filmed.

Not only does this mean that we will likely only have to put up with them for a year, but that any future unfilmed idents might be improved upon as the creative team adjust their approach following audience reaction to the disappointing first set.

Imagine if they had spent huge sums on filming all of them already and we then had to be stuck with them for 4 or 5 years like the Rhythm & Movement set?!! At least they are likely to make way for something new next January, by which time there may be a BBC-wide rebrand underway, or key personnel might have moved on and the whole approach could very well change again.

As I said in a previous post, perhaps this year-long campaign is an experiment by the BBC to move to cheaper but more frequently changing ident packages (after the last 10 years of one package), or it might just be timed as a stop-gap to fill 12 months until a much larger cross channel revamp. Don't forget that, after the expense of the Olympics last year, the BBC might not have had as much money to spend on rolling out a new permanent package with the production standards we've come to expect. Hopefully this is a ''lull" year and something much better is not too far around the corner.

Incidentally, Campaign Live website has also picked-up on the story and confirmed the collaboration with Martin Parr is only for 1 year. Also, very interestingly, apart from the involvement of Martin Parr, the creative people involved in the current campaign are the same as those for the Christmas Day idents.

BBC Creative has been responsible for working on BBC presentation - ever since the BBC cut ties with Red Bee in 2015. Red Bee's last work on BBC pres was BBC THREE and CBBC refreshes.

They rushed on THREE, since it did become clear that the channel was closing on linear platforms and moving online. It's based upon the three values laid out by Kavanagh in December 2014; Make Me Laugh, Make Me Think and Give Me a Voice. The logo looks strange at first but once you do look at the themes of it, then it all makes sense.

With a large majority of 'oneness' idents still unfilmed - there is a chance that it can improve. I'm not sure about it having a soundtrack (unlikely I think), but production values and attention to detail should be key. There is a host of post processing and editing techniques available to BBC Creative that would improve the idents visually. With Wales idents filmed, Scotland and NI also are in need of their own idents as well - hopefully that is placed as the priority, and they can at least move to the regions to film idents.
JO
Joe
Joe posted:
- People's idea of bringing back the balloons, or the myriad ideas for alternatives shows why Gluben's idea of starting a TV presentation company (which I cannot even slightly imagine being financially viable, let alone successful or a producer of good work) is a terrible idea


Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you with my idea! Realistically, of course I don't think I could even think of forming a TV presentation company. Sure, it's a nice pipe dream, but I'm obviously not going to do it.

I guess it's like when you ask fans to come up with a piece of work for their favourite artist or TV show; inevitably, it's awful.

Again, no harm meant!


It's fine, it's just - the more you mentioned it the more I believed you to be serious. I'm sure you have good ideas and that you feel passionately - but like you say, it's probably a bit like meeting your idol, it'll never be quite how you picture it. Let's just say that idents are not really made for people on here. Equally, what is made for people on here would probably be hated by many 'real people'. It seems like a simple solution but it often isn't.
WI
Wicko
I have just watched the interview on Points West. I got the impression that it is only "Oneness" that will last the year-not the idents. Martin Parr said that during the year he will be filming idents from all over the UK. I predict that up to 2 a month will launch but after this year, all 20 will air collectively rather than just 2 a month. He didn't say that the idents will last a year. He hinted they might air beyond this year.
NB
NextBigThing
BBC Creative has been responsible for working on BBC presentation - ever since the BBC cut ties with Red Bee in 2015. Red Bee's last work on BBC pres was BBC THREE and CBBC refreshes.


Thanks for the info MetalGearRex. I guess the point I was trying to make is that, given the same team worked on both ident sets, it's just a bit surprising that they're so different in style in terms of editing, logo placement, post processing etc. Perhaps it's just a natural evolution of one look to another, or perhaps when they filmed the portrait idents they decided that the logo needed to be moved so not as to detract from the subject matter (given that there's no longer such an obvious visual device such as the circle), or perhaps it was one of Martin Parr's conditions that his work would be as left untreated as possible?

Over the last few days I have reflected on them a bit further and can sort of see what they're trying to do - literally a photo-journalistic record of Britain in 2017 around the theme of coming together as one. It's just a shame that it looks like there's only 2 per month which instantly makes them very repetitive - they need to shoot at least 4 per month just to show the diversity and ambition of what they're trying to achieve. That said, I wouldn't mind betting that in a few months once the shock has worn off there'll be a few in this set that people will quite like, and that next January we'll all be shocked and affronted again at the next set!
Last edited by NextBigThing on 5 January 2017 6:03pm - 2 times in total
NB
NextBigThing
Wicko posted:
I have just watched the interview on Points West. I got the impression that it is only "Oneness" that will last the year-not the idents. Martin Parr said that during the year he will be filming idents from all over the UK. I predict that up to 2 a month willlaunch but after this year, all 20 will air collectively rather than just 2 a month. He didn't say that the idents will last a year. He hinted they might air beyond this year.


Agreed Wicko, but once "oneness" as a marketing campaign is over surely the concept becomes redundant and the idents just revert to a bunch of people hanging around with no apparent commonality or theme to link them.

I also can't see all of them being shown together as, by the look of things, the photo journalist approach mans that they are meant to be month and season specific - I don't think we'll be seeing the freezing cold swimmers come July.

I'm pretty sure this is intended as a one-off campaign for 2017 only, which may or may not be followed by a more permanent rebrand. But then again, I'm now very used to being surprised and disappointed by what the Beeb does with its presentation these days...
Last edited by NextBigThing on 5 January 2017 6:07pm
FA
fanoftv
Could any edits be made using the stings from Christmas Day of the groups of people meeting and having fun but then staring into the camera with the oneness logo. I quite liked the little animations tagged onto the end of the oneness logo too, they added a little charm to them.

I agree about the quantity needed if you're going to do this. Part of me feels that a lot of us wouldn't feel so bad about it if it wasn't just the same two idents that we keep seeing.

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