SE
This reminded me to check STV's Twitter feed, which I normally do when England are on STV, and see that they're getting flooded with complaints again.
I see that. There is a lot of ignorance out there about the broadcast arrangement of Scotland games, many seem to think STV pick England ahead of Scotland. I don't expect an English based ITV will ever bid for the live Scotland rights on behalf of STV. So it's up to STV to dig into their pockets if they want to meet the expectations of their viewers (unlikely).
STV used to opt out of the England games, but presumably they are reluctant to do so with the affiliate arrangement whereby they pay a fixed rate for the ITV schedule. I don't know the financial implication but if it resonates so badly with the audience maybe they should consider opting out.
But is some International Football (even if it's England) better than none at all for advertisers ?
Square Eyes
Founding member
This reminded me to check STV's Twitter feed, which I normally do when England are on STV, and see that they're getting flooded with complaints again.
I see that. There is a lot of ignorance out there about the broadcast arrangement of Scotland games, many seem to think STV pick England ahead of Scotland. I don't expect an English based ITV will ever bid for the live Scotland rights on behalf of STV. So it's up to STV to dig into their pockets if they want to meet the expectations of their viewers (unlikely).
STV used to opt out of the England games, but presumably they are reluctant to do so with the affiliate arrangement whereby they pay a fixed rate for the ITV schedule. I don't know the financial implication but if it resonates so badly with the audience maybe they should consider opting out.
But is some International Football (even if it's England) better than none at all for advertisers ?
Last edited by Square Eyes on 12 October 2016 1:12am
WH
I'm ignorant to Scottish football rights, but surely the fact that STV is unlikely to do that suggests it's not economically viable, which is a good enough reason for neither a Scottish or English based commercial broadcaster choosing to bid?
Whataday
Founding member
I don't expect an English based ITV will ever bid for the live Scotland rights on behalf of STV. So it's up to STV to dig into their pockets if they want to meet the expectations of their viewers (unlikely).
I'm ignorant to Scottish football rights, but surely the fact that STV is unlikely to do that suggests it's not economically viable, which is a good enough reason for neither a Scottish or English based commercial broadcaster choosing to bid?
SO
I don't think STV have bid for Scotland games for a long time, if at all, it was always whatever ITV was showing. Although, they did bid for the highlights package, however, BBC Scotland have outbid them for that, hence why Scotsport came to an end.
When the CEO of STV pocketed over £2mil last year, it is a wonder why they haven't used some of that money on screen.
When the CEO of STV pocketed over £2mil last year, it is a wonder why they haven't used some of that money on screen.
SW
Highlights of Northern Ireland matches were on ITV for the last qualifying campaign as well. The current deal now means that ITV have England live and highlights of the rest (after each "round" of fixtures), and Sky have all the other home nations live. I think it is unfair to suggest that coverage of Northern Ireland would be "minimal", ITV's highlights programmes have been very fair in giving all the home nations their fair share of coverage and have often lead with nations other than England if their matches have been more important.
Yes, it might be a bit of a shame that Northern Ireland can't get its own dedicated highlights show but the deal does at least mean all their matches are on the same channel and everyone knows where they are, so there's no danger of any match ending up on PPV or the internet. And the highlights are all together as well - so the home nations get loads more coverage across the UK than they used to have.
Of course, friendlies are a different matter and are sold by the individual nations, which means Northern Ireland friendlies are still on BBC Northern Ireland.
I don't see why they should, people across the UK are happy to watch "foreign" football and rather that than no football at all. They used to opt out because ITV had just bought England rights but these rights are bought from UEFA and I would no doubt assume that if they don't show England matches live, they also wouldn't be able to show the Scotland highlights.
There's no point blaming ITV. UEFA offers the rights and if ITV could only afford to buy the rights to one nation, it would clearly be best value to buy England. It's not like the other nations have had live coverage on FTA TV right up until now. You may wish to compare it to the turn of the century when all the home nations were on FTA apart from England.
I see there are highlights of tonight's World Cup qualifiers on ITV. Northern Ireland highlights have been on BBC NI for as long as I can remember. But tonight they are on ITV. I presume there is no opt-out for UTV, however, so I imagine coverage of Germany vs NI will be minimal, and at the end. Much worse coverage than in the past as the BBC would have had a dedicated (albeit local) show.
Highlights of Northern Ireland matches were on ITV for the last qualifying campaign as well. The current deal now means that ITV have England live and highlights of the rest (after each "round" of fixtures), and Sky have all the other home nations live. I think it is unfair to suggest that coverage of Northern Ireland would be "minimal", ITV's highlights programmes have been very fair in giving all the home nations their fair share of coverage and have often lead with nations other than England if their matches have been more important.
Yes, it might be a bit of a shame that Northern Ireland can't get its own dedicated highlights show but the deal does at least mean all their matches are on the same channel and everyone knows where they are, so there's no danger of any match ending up on PPV or the internet. And the highlights are all together as well - so the home nations get loads more coverage across the UK than they used to have.
Of course, friendlies are a different matter and are sold by the individual nations, which means Northern Ireland friendlies are still on BBC Northern Ireland.
STV used to opt out of the England games, but presumably they are reluctant to do so with the affiliate arrangement whereby they pay a fixed rate for the ITV schedule. I don't know the financial implication but if it resonates so badly with the audience maybe they should consider opting out.
I don't see why they should, people across the UK are happy to watch "foreign" football and rather that than no football at all. They used to opt out because ITV had just bought England rights but these rights are bought from UEFA and I would no doubt assume that if they don't show England matches live, they also wouldn't be able to show the Scotland highlights.
There's no point blaming ITV. UEFA offers the rights and if ITV could only afford to buy the rights to one nation, it would clearly be best value to buy England. It's not like the other nations have had live coverage on FTA TV right up until now. You may wish to compare it to the turn of the century when all the home nations were on FTA apart from England.
WH
Because STV is not a charity and he has presumably been doing a good enough job to warrant that sort of pay out?
Besides which, surely it costs tens of millions for even Scottish football rights - that's got to be anything up to half the revenue of the entire company. He certainly wouldn't be getting a bonus as he'd be bankrupting STV.
Whataday
Founding member
When the CEO of STV pocketed over £2mil last year, it is a wonder why they haven't used some of that money on screen.
Because STV is not a charity and he has presumably been doing a good enough job to warrant that sort of pay out?
Besides which, surely it costs tens of millions for even Scottish football rights - that's got to be anything up to half the revenue of the entire company. He certainly wouldn't be getting a bonus as he'd be bankrupting STV.
MR
mr_vivian
Of course you are, but I feel you would be in a minority of people who want absolutely no content from NI whatsoever.
ITV's uniqueness was how each region existed to serve their viewers as best they could, some were better than others admittedly. They created programming for the network and showcased their main towns and cities to the whole of the UK. Now we have another centralised conglomerate based in London, with very little programming filmed out of London. It's not really much to shout about.
ITV's uniqueness was how each region existed to serve their viewers as best they could, some were better than others admittedly. They created programming for the network and showcased their main towns and cities to the whole of the UK. Now we have another centralised conglomerate based in London, with very little programming filmed out of London. It's not really much to shout about.
I understand what you are saying and I would agree with some of your points however that age of local TV is now over.
You have to remember the TV climate isn't the same as it was and if ITV didn't actually do what they are doing now then everything would have closed down! Absolutely everyone would have lost their jobs eventually!
Not everyone will like ITV.. not everyone will like UTV... but at the end of the day as long as we can still watch ITV programmes and have some sort of a local news service then I think we are doing well and I don't think it's fair to expect more than that unless you're willing to invest a couple of million which just isn't going to happen.
It's not great, but the alternative is worse. Closure.
I agree with you that the multichannel age would have had an effect on ITV, I'm not wholly sure that it would have resulted in closure, however. Let's be honest, no commercial broadcaster, with the exception of Sky, has the power to take on ITV. And even then, although it has the money behind it, Sky TV hardly makes a dent on today's ITV ratings.
The ratings of the 80s and 90s will probably never exist again, except for Christmas day, as people work longer hours and want the schedules to work around them, not the other way. But, I still don't see why the separate ITV companies could not have still worked today. There may be less as some may merge, but I don't understand why it couldn't work. Am I being that naïve?
Well look at it this way - ITV as a whole today have their audience dropping year on year (as admitted by the Channel controller) and if ITV was still divided into little companies the price of maintaining each one would remain but commercial revenue would drop in each area because advertisers will not want to pay a lot of money out if there's only a couple of thousand watching in a given area.
In a nutshell, the separate ITV companies could go on and still go on today... but with a tighter budget and an option of merging with another ITV company or (seriously) closure as the audience drops to below commercial expectations.
So to me, It makes total financial sense to merge everything together.
TL
toby lerone 2016
Highlights of Northern Ireland matches were on ITV for the last qualifying campaign as well. The current deal now means that ITV have England live and highlights of the rest (after each "round" of fixtures), and Sky have all the other home nations live. I think it is unfair to suggest that coverage of Northern Ireland would be "minimal", ITV's highlights programmes have been very fair in giving all the home nations their fair share of coverage and have often lead with nations other than England if their matches have been more important.
Yes, it might be a bit of a shame that Northern Ireland can't get its own dedicated highlights show but the deal does at least mean all their matches are on the same channel and everyone knows where they are, so there's no danger of any match ending up on PPV or the internet. And the highlights are all together as well - so the home nations get loads more coverage across the UK than they used to have.
Of course, friendlies are a different matter and are sold by the individual nations, which means Northern Ireland friendlies are still on BBC Northern Ireland.
Yes, it might be a bit of a shame that Northern Ireland can't get its own dedicated highlights show but the deal does at least mean all their matches are on the same channel and everyone knows where they are, so there's no danger of any match ending up on PPV or the internet. And the highlights are all together as well - so the home nations get loads more coverage across the UK than they used to have.
Of course, friendlies are a different matter and are sold by the individual nations, which means Northern Ireland friendlies are still on BBC Northern Ireland.
The ITV highlights shows have got better since they first started, it seems much more fair and balanced now as the first couple when NI were on last for about 2 minutes at 1am because UTV moved them to a later slot with more time dedicated to England when the match was already live on ITV followed by highlights so fair play to ITV for doing that. It would be good to have our own dedicated highlights on UTV like we used to on BBC NI previously but ITV are doing a good job now so can't complain and it is good for NI fans across the UK.
You also mention friendlies now being on BBC NI and you are right but initially when the IFA sold the rights to Sky from BBC NI in 2008, Sky had to cover all home matches whether qualifier or friendly and also had to cover a number of Irish League matches per season while the BBC had highlights however when UEFA centralised the rights to ITV and Sky starting with the Euro 2016 qualifiers it meant Sky had to cover all our qualifiers but could drop the extra friendlies and the Irish League and ITV had highlights so BBC NI lost those rights but gained home friendlies. Also the good part of this centralised deal is that it meant Sky had to show all our qualifying matches as they had dropped certain matches in the past.
PE
peterrocket
Founding member
One of the UTV crew vehicles appears to be driving around with the branding removed... with the old logo only visible by the sticky residue and needing a good wash.
PC
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales being on Sky rather than terrestrial TV is a matter of economics and lack of legislation, rather than being STV's fault.
STV pays a flat fee for the ITV schedule, which means they get the England games as part of the package. To pick up the Scotland games, they'd need to bid separately.
The problem is, ITV has an audience of 50 million or so in England (and those in the other nations) to target to advertisers. STV has an audience of about four million (not even Border) and is up against the wallets of Sky and other pay-TV operators who a) have a lot of money, b) are subscription based and c) have a lot of channels to fill.
A few years ago the question of whether the likes of Scotland internationals should be part of the "crown jewels", protected events that must be on terrestrial TV, came up. The SFA fought it tooth and nail, saying it would detrimentally impact on the Scottish game. I'll be honest, given recent performances I'm struggling to see how it could have made things any worse to have a few games on the likes of BBC Scotland.
Whichever way, it's open to the highest bidder. And that's never going to be STV and is unlikely to be BBC Scotland.
I don't know what the situation is in Ireland in terms of protected matches, but their international friendly during the week was on RTE.
STV pays a flat fee for the ITV schedule, which means they get the England games as part of the package. To pick up the Scotland games, they'd need to bid separately.
The problem is, ITV has an audience of 50 million or so in England (and those in the other nations) to target to advertisers. STV has an audience of about four million (not even Border) and is up against the wallets of Sky and other pay-TV operators who a) have a lot of money, b) are subscription based and c) have a lot of channels to fill.
A few years ago the question of whether the likes of Scotland internationals should be part of the "crown jewels", protected events that must be on terrestrial TV, came up. The SFA fought it tooth and nail, saying it would detrimentally impact on the Scottish game. I'll be honest, given recent performances I'm struggling to see how it could have made things any worse to have a few games on the likes of BBC Scotland.
Whichever way, it's open to the highest bidder. And that's never going to be STV and is unlikely to be BBC Scotland.
I don't know what the situation is in Ireland in terms of protected matches, but their international friendly during the week was on RTE.