The Newsroom

BBC News Channel & World News to merge?

Split from BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards (May 2016)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
DT
DTV


You can doubt it if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.


Prove it or at least base it on your listening to the various foreign language services.


Are you seriously telling me that you don't know about the BBC External Serivces' role during World War 2? Are you seriously saying that you don't know that the Russian Service would broadcast propaganda during the Cold War?

Are you telling me that you don't know that the BBC would broadcast material during their broadcasts on the various foreign language services that came not from BBC journalists, but from the Foreign Office? It's part of the reason why Britian is so popular not just with foreign tourists, but with refugees.

Again, I am shocked. Shocked that there are people out there who claim an interest in the broadcasting industry, who know little about its actual history.

But then, I guess this is the world we live in today. If it ain't written on the internet, it didn't happen, even though a lot of what is written on the internet also didn't happen, and in a lot of cases, isn't even based on anything even approaching reality.


You are aware that comparing what went on in World War Two to what goes on now is insane right? During World War Two the BBC both domestic and internationally broadcast some statistics and stories that were half-truths and existed primarily to give a view of the war that favoured the allies and boosted domestic morale - Germany with the likes of Lord Haw Haw did the same. The BBC French Service was also broadcasting pre-agreed messages to the French resistance so that the D-Day landings could essentially run to plan. But in World War Two people carried around gas masks, had an air raid shelter in their garden and the BBC didn't actually produce any television - so the comparison is piss poor.

During the Cold War the BBC Eastern European services did have a slight editorial bent against the Soviet system of government, but were generally viewed as impartial and accurate compared to VoA services and Mikhail Gorbachev has said himself how he listened to the BBC as it was the only way to find out what actually was going on in Russia during the late-80s. Also you have to note that in the 50s the BBC Russian Service was investigated by MI5 because many of its employees had communist ties. But maybe you are right, maybe we do need to add the BBC's impressive propaganda to the list of causes for the collapse of the Soviet Union and end of the Cold War.

The BBC World Service is funded by the FCO but is not an FCO puppet organisation - while it is a component of the information war, its part in the information war to areas like the Middle East is to provide accurate and impartial news that isn't got from the usual channels. The World Service doesn't provide a VoA-style 'isn't the West great' style service, far from that - it has programmes on the Arabic service that celebrate Middle Eastern cultures etc. While inevitably a Western-based news organisation will have a slight cultural bias, the World Service is definitely not an FCO propaganda operation.

You know, for someone who accused me, amongst others, of being a conspiracy theorist just weeks ago - this does seem very conspiracy-like.
DT
DTV
Here's a recent article about programs going out on World News that were sponsored by foreign governments that were deemed propaganda by OfCom. https://web.archive.org/web/20150824081954/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-among-broadcasters-to-repeatedly-breach-ofcom-code-over-propaganda-content-10459743.html


Firstly, that is BBC World News - a separate entity to the BBC World Service.
Secondly, the programmes weren't produced by the BBC just shown by them as cheap filler.
Thirdly, the BBC wasn't aware that FBC were funded by Malaysia when they commissioned the programmes and apologised for a breach of editorial independence after this was discovered.
Fourthly, the BBC has since stopped the commissioning of such programmes.
Fifthly, if the BBC was functioning as some sort of quasi-propaganda organisation surely it would neither have apologised or stopped commissioning such programmes.
Sixthly, your argument is getting increasingly tenuous - first you two delve into history, now you're referring to an incident that the BBC has apologised for and made sure won't happen again?
RK
Rkolsen
DTV posted:

Firstly, that is BBC World News - a separate entity to the BBC World Service.
Secondly, the programmes weren't produced by the BBC just shown by them as cheap filler.
Thirdly, the BBC wasn't aware that FBC were funded by Malaysia when they commissioned the programmes and apologised for a breach of editorial independence after this was discovered.
Fourthly, the BBC has since stopped the commissioning of such programmes.
Fifthly, if the BBC was functioning as some sort of quasi-propaganda organisation surely it would neither have apologised or stopped commissioning such programmes.
Sixthly, your argument is getting increasingly tenuous - first you two delve into history, now you're referring to an incident that the BBC has apologised for and made sure won't happen again?



I realize they are separate entities - I was getting at that there have been instances of propaganda broadcast in the past. BBC World News should have known/realized and done their due diligence at the funding of the programs if they were getting it for a steal (often for £1). I agree if they were a true propaganda organization that wouldn't apologize. And finally I brought up the incidents during WW2 and in the past decade as they have been deemed as propaganda.

I have the utmost respect for BBC News, BBC World News and the BBC World Service and wish there was an equivalent here in America. I have no problem with their content but when someone brought up propaganda I felt like I had to share some instances of what would be considered in the past. The thing about propaganda is that one audience may agree with it and never notice it while other cultures may take offense and feel like international broadcasters are pushing an agenda. I imagine a lot of the Russian journalists at RT have no idea that they are pushing an ideal that would be considered propaganda by the western world because that's all they know.
CI
cityprod

Prove it or at least base it on your listening to the various foreign language services.


Are you seriously telling me that you don't know about the BBC External Serivces' role during World War 2? Are you seriously saying that you don't know that the Russian Service would broadcast propaganda during the Cold War?

Are you telling me that you don't know that the BBC would broadcast material during their broadcasts on the various foreign language services that came not from BBC journalists, but from the Foreign Office? It's part of the reason why Britian is so popular not just with foreign tourists, but with refugees.

Again, I am shocked. Shocked that there are people out there who claim an interest in the broadcasting industry, who know little about its actual history.

But then, I guess this is the world we live in today. If it ain't written on the internet, it didn't happen, even though a lot of what is written on the internet also didn't happen, and in a lot of cases, isn't even based on anything even approaching reality.


"History" is the important word, the word you didn't mention at first. I doubt you remember the Second World War, and the Cold War is a generation ago.


Yep, fair point about history, though in my defence, the cold war was a part of my childhood, and the BBC External Services was an open secret, just like the existence of MI5, MI6 & GCHQ was. None of those were ever acknowledged until much later. So I grew up understanding it as something that was widely known but never acknowledged by the Government.
JO
johnnyboy Founding member
Yep, fair point about history, though in my defence, the cold war was a part of my childhood, and the BBC External Services was an open secret, just like the existence of MI5, MI6 & GCHQ was. None of those were ever acknowledged until much later. So I grew up understanding it as something that was widely known but never acknowledged by the Government.


If BBC News et al were still not staffed from top to bottom by MI5, MI6 and GCHQ "undercover" so to speak, they wouldn't be very good intelligence agencies.

BBC News is a mouthpiece of the "deep state" - the part of the government that doesn't change no matter who's in power.

That said, I still consume their output and enjoy it for what it is - and what it is is what someone else wants us to know.
IL
i-lied
The BBC is renowned worldwide for broadcasting an impartial view. Admittedly this is against local broadcasters who were puppet organisations of the governments concerned.

The World Service was funded by the FCO until 2014 when it became completely funded by the license fee. Even when it was funded by the FCO, it was independent from the British Government (I listened while it was under that regime). The BBC is bound in its charter to be impartial and I doubt it was acting as a puppet organisation for the government.

It is widely reported that Gorbachev heard on the BBC World Service that while on holiday in his summer residence about the coup going on in Moscow.
LX
lxflyer

BBC World Service in English is unparalleled. The other languauge services, not so much, they have often been used as a means of broadcasting Foriegn Office propaganda, in a form that people in those countries would understand.

This compares rather differently to Voice Of America which is US Goverment propaganda, no matter the language.


That's a pretty serious allegation to make given the BBC's editorial independence.


Jeez, I'm shocked! Shocked to find out there are people who actually don't know that that is true. That was basically the price of being funded by the Foreign Office. It wasn't all the time, and it certainly wasn't every day or necesarily every week, but at some points, there were broadcasts made that had more to do with the Foreign Office in content, than it did BBC journalism.

You can doubt it if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.


With respect we are talking about the BBC in the 21st Century - not during WW2, and the comment I was replying to was suggesting that there was a current perception that the BBC WS is a FCO propaganda exercise.

I am suggesting that with its editorial independence, it is certainly not a FCO propaganda exercise and the only people who would believe that are those who are afraid of the truth.
London Lite, welshkid and i-lied gave kudos

11 days later

LL
London Lite Founding member
Former NC and World editor Marek Pruszewicz on Linkedin gives what I think are the best reasons for not merging the two channels.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/breaking-news-theres-thing-merged-channel-marek-pruszewicz
NE
News96
That Ladies and Gents, rests the case as to why the Merger should not happen-It would be a total disaster if it happened.
DT
DTV
That Ladies and Gents, rests the case as to why the Merger should not happen-It would be a total disaster if it happened.


Which is of course the sensible option, the only issue is that it requires 'actual logic' and 'BBC Management logic' to eclipse - something that, like a total eclipse, is a spectacle.
Justin, London Lite and Rkolsen gave kudos
ST
Stuart
That Ladies and Gents . . .

'Ladies' ? Shocked
IN
Independent
If the claim in this Forbes article that the head of news is more interested in mobile instead of TV and others at the top more interested in online is true, it feels less likely the merger proposal will be rejected.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmidgley/2016/05/31/why-the-bbc-news-tv-channel-must-be-saved

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