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PALplus broadcasts in the 1990s

(June 2014)

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IS
Inspector Sands
The BBC's network playout remained composite based up to DVB launch in 98 ?

Longer than that. The NTA, which was the older 'analogue' playout area didn't fully close down until at least 2001
MA
Markymark
The BBC's network playout remained composite based up to DVB launch in 98 ?

Longer than that. The NTA, which was the older 'analogue' playout area didn't fully close down until at least 2001


And playout from D3 VT even longer ?
DE
deejay
I'm pretty sure there were some D3 machines installed in the Broadcast Centre in 2004 when BBC (Domestic) Pres moved out of TVC. The standard was that 16:9 programmes were delivered on DigiBeta and 4:3 programmes on D3. There was also an enormous archive of stuff like Schools programmes which was all 4:3 and on D3, which was still regularly aired.
IS
Inspector Sands
I suspect that there will still be some D3 machines at the Broadcast Centre now purely because there's so much on the format.

I read something a while back about the transfer process to get everything off D3. Instead of converting into another format for archive they were taking the raw composite data off the tape and storing that digitally. That way nothing was lost, and I suppose with methods like colour recovery emerging that might be useful in years to come
NG
noggin Founding member

I read something a while back about the transfer process to get everything off D3. Instead of converting into another format for archive they were taking the raw composite data off the tape and storing that digitally. That way nothing was lost, and I suppose with methods like colour recovery emerging that might be useful in years to come


They are using the <very clever> BBC R&D designed Transform PAL decoder which is the world's best PAL decoder and is reversible. The result is recorded to both DigiBeta (which is lossily compressed) and also as uncompressed video via Ingex (the BBC R&D Open Source PC recording system) to LTO. If a better PAL decoder arrives then it will be possible to reverse the Transform decoding, recreate the PAL source and then use the new PAL decoder (though I doubt that will happen). They aren't archiving the 4fsc digital composite signal.
NG
noggin Founding member
The BBC's network playout remained composite based up to DVB launch in 98 ?

Longer than that. The NTA, which was the older 'analogue' playout area didn't fully close down until at least 2001


Though the DTA had been opting out / blanketing for DVB broadcasts since 1998. The NTA was master, but their PAL footprint should only have been imposed on PAL analogue viewers. (Apart from 4:3 PAL contributions - and the odd <spit> 16:9 PAL show...)
VM
VMPhil
Pete posted:
It's so odd thinking back to the crazy old days of regional news existing in 14:9 croporama and nothing ever quite lining up properly.

I remember the ITV News going out in 14:9 up until 2008 or so, it really was quite late before they went widescreen. It surprised me, then, how quickly they converted to HD.
IS
Inspector Sands

Though the DTA had been opting out / blanketing for DVB broadcasts since 1998.

But going back to the original point, that still wouldn't have helped PAL+
Quote:

The NTA was master, but their PAL footprint should only have been imposed on PAL analogue viewers. (Apart from 4:3 PAL contributions - and the odd <spit> 16:9 PAL show...)

Except for the bit (until late 99) when the DTA wasn't 24/7 and at certain times the digital services were derived from the NTA. Then the few digital viewers were getting converted PAL for a lot of the time
MA
Markymark

Though the DTA had been opting out / blanketing for DVB broadcasts since 1998.

But going back to the original point, that still wouldn't have helped PAL+
Quote:

The NTA was master, but their PAL footprint should only have been imposed on PAL analogue viewers. (Apart from 4:3 PAL contributions - and the odd <spit> 16:9 PAL show...)

Except for the bit (until late 99) when the DTA wasn't 24/7 and at certain times the digital services were derived from the NTA. Then the few digital viewers were getting converted PAL for a lot of the time


Yes, I can remember weekend mornings in 98/99 the D-Sat and DTT versions of BBC 1 and 2
were soggy 4:3 PAL derived , and on one occasion the DTA was jacked in about 30 mins into
Grandstand. Better than Meridian, who in those early days seemed to have to manually
patch in any 16:9 programming to the DTT Tx path (otherwise it was soggy 4:3 PAL derived)
C4 on D-Sat was also just a coded 4:3 signal, derived from the London analogue output, although
DTT was properly component sourced with WSS from the outset.
GE
thegeek Founding member
I'm pretty sure there were some D3 machines installed in the Broadcast Centre in 2004 when BBC (Domestic) Pres moved out of TVC. The standard was that 16:9 programmes were delivered on DigiBeta and 4:3 programmes on D3. There was also an enormous archive of stuff like Schools programmes which was all 4:3 and on D3, which was still regularly aired.

Can confirm.
Everything 4:3 had to be ARCed to 12P16, with curtains (a branded background to fill the gaps) switched in for certain programming - I think schools progs.

I think on my second shift on the MMO, the director buzzed through and asked me to load up the tape in sync with the server playout that was currently on air, as there was something wrong with the ingested copy. That maybe wasn't the best time to find out that the transport on a D3 deck is nowhere near as user-friendly as the transport on a Sony VTR...
IS
Inspector Sands
Everything 4:3 had to be ARCed to 12P16, with curtains (a branded background to fill the gaps) switched in for certain programming - I think schools progs.

These were the older programmes on BBC Knowledge. There was an extra bit of kit on the output of the D3 machine that covered the pillars with a pattern. Not 'branded' as such but they matched the design of the channel

Quote:
I think on my second shift on the MMO, the director buzzed through and asked me to load up the tape in sync with the server playout that was currently on air, as there was something wrong with the ingested copy. That maybe wasn't the best time to find out that the transport on a D3 deck is nowhere near as user-friendly as the transport on a Sony VTR...

They weren't as fast to load or get going but once the tape was in, the transport was much more functional. Being able to type in a timecode and have the tape go straight to it is something that you miss once you've used a D3. The machines used to have the timecodes of all the standard trail in-points in them too so in the NTA days it was easy to go straight to the 'Today' or 'Tomorrow' version with a couple of keypresses
DE
deejay
They weren't as fast to load or get going but once the tape was in, the transport was much more functional. Being able to type in a timecode and have the tape go straight to it is something that you miss once you've used a D3. The machines used to have the timecodes of all the standard trail in-points in them too so in the NTA days it was easy to go straight to the 'Today' or 'Tomorrow' version with a couple of keypresses


I actually preferred the D3 transports too, and could get a backup tape in synch with a main pretty quickly by playing it at 1.1x speed until it was bang on Smile The keypad for goto timecode function was also brilliant. I'd forgotten that you could store preset timecodes (10 I think) and that all of the VTRs in the NTA had the same ini file so that the same standard in-timecodes (minus a 5" preroll) for programmes and/or trails were preset. Ahh memories...

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