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Whataday6,780 posts since 13 Sep 2001
HTV Wales Wales Today
I've not come across this sussuration of birds sting before, but I'm sure others will be able to tell me otherwise.

IIRC, it was used to promote Autumnwatch in 2015.

It just makes no sense they create these for promos but just raid the recycle bin for the idents.


I don't know this for certain, but I have a hunch it's to do with different budgets. I'm sure someone will reprimand me and correct me though.
Rob79310 posts since 28 Jun 2016
Granada North West Today
Rob793 remembers seeing it [Paper Cut] in school when he was 12. Given his age, that would mean 1992; assuming his memory is accurate. It'd be nice if someone properly old enough to vividly remember could shed some light on just how long this ident lasted, as well as its frequency whilst in use.

Great to see BBC Northern Ireland get around to using it. Interesting seeing this ident in broadcast quality, as most examples online are pretty choppy (bar the TV Museum example). Never really noticed the vertical lines before on the paper background.

Can't be many more idents left for BBC Two Northern Ireland to revive now!


My long term memory is steadfast, it's my short term memory that's goosed! It was definitely spring/summer 1992, however the school programme was on video cassette and may well have been recorded in 1991.
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chris3,935 posts since 6 Jul 2005
Granada North West Today
IIRC, it was used to promote Autumnwatch in 2015.

It just makes no sense they create these for promos but just raid the recycle bin for the idents.


I don't know this for certain, but I have a hunch it's to do with different budgets. I'm sure someone will reprimand me and correct me though.


Regardless of who paid for them, surely once they're made the BBC could just turn them into an ident? I'm sure there are plenty of examples of special idents and stings that would make prefectly good regular idents.
Mr Kite804 posts since 15 Aug 2007
Granada North West Today
TV room does have a number of errors, just to point that out, Just to say because there is NO video proof doesn't auto mean it never lasted until 1993.


Yes, that is a good point and needs taking into account. However, the anecdotal evidence (for want of a better term) all points to it being used only in 1991. Of the ones on Youtube with reliable dates, we've got...

16/02/91 (first day of the '2's)
19/02/91
16/05/91
10/07/91
20/09/91
16/11/91

There may be others I've missed but I haven't come across any examples from 92 or 93.
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MMcG198197 posts since 14 Dec 2014
UTV Newsline
Re: Paper Cut-Out

The TV Room cites its use as being Feb '91 to mid-'91. So not long at all.

https://tvr.metropol247.co.uk/thetvroom.com/bbc-uk/bbc-2-11-01.html


That was my best recollection from memory. I hadn't started keeping logs of such events back then. And 1991 was a very different time - no internet and not the access to such information that we have today.

BBC Two's presentation back then was such a departure from what had gone before. And although I watched many more BBC Two junctions than I had during the 1986 - 1991 era, it's very difficult to be absolutely definitive when it comes to some of these dates. Many people in our little community of enthusiasts - myself included - often fall into the trap of making what appears to be a statement of fact. The truth is, there are some items we can't be certain about. I didn't watch and log the content of every junction. I would usually have included a "circa" qualification on dates that I wasn't certain about. I'm surprised there isn't one in that case.

As I say, I did watch a lot of BBC Two back in those days (evenings mostly) and I am quite surprised Paper Cut-Out was still in use as late as November. A September airing doesn't really surprise me. My recollection of Paper Cut-Out was that it wasn't used that often. I seem to recall that it was used quite a bit to introduce the late-night 'Weatherview'. But I don't remember it being used much during prime-time. I didn't see much BBC Two daytime, so can't really comment on that - perhaps it had more of a presence there? Given the fact that it was dumped so soon, it clearly wasn't well-liked and consequently probably wasn't used much. Back in those days, the use of a particular ident was much more in the hands of the director/announcer, so usage of particular idents probably depended on that individual's preferences - though they were probably advised to maintain a good variety during the day/shift and ensure appropriateness for the upcoming programme. Even from the start, Paper Cut-Out did seem like the runt of the litter. It's definitely quite dull. A bit too much like a close relative of Copper Cut-Out - but the boring, less animated type of relative.

Regarding the recent playouts of Paper Cut-Out on BBC Two Northern Ireland - yes, nice to see it back on air. Funnily enough, this week's airings could be the first from BBC NI's presentation department. What follows are my recollections - not necessarily definitive. But I did catch a lot of BBC Two NI junctions during the 1991 - 1997 period (local junctions on BBC Two were very limited back in those days). Yes, very sad! Back in the 1990s, BBC NI pres was rather different to what it is now. Very few of the BBC Two idents were used - and the soundtracks were rarely aired. 'Glass' was a firm favourite and lasted well beyond 1993 in Northern Ireland. 'Copper Cut-Out' was also used a lot. However, I must acknowledge David Olver here, who always put great effort into his junctions - and still does. David was the only BBC NI announcer/director to deviate from the usual rotation of 'Glass' and 'Copper Cut-Out' - and he also made sure that the soundtracks could be heard, However, I have no recollection of Paper Cut-Out ever being played out by BBC NI during the period 1991 - 1997.

EDIT: just received some additional input from a friend of mine who recollects 'Paper Cut-Out' being an alternative to 'Glass' and used for daytime news bulletins and 'Newsnight'.
Last edited by MMcG198 on 12 January 2017 11:08pm
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D.Page682 posts since 30 Oct 2013
London London
Regarding the issue of dates to recordings, it is certainly well worth mentioning that if a recording was made on S-VHS (and if you're extremely lucky, VHS as well but to a very hit-and-miss extent), you could/can ascertain the date of the recording very successfully.

Because of its relatively wide bandwidth (for domestic formats at that time), an 'unofficial' feature of S-VHS was that the teletext information, stored in the vertical interval, was quite intact. With the recording in playback mode, you just hit the teletext button on the TV and up would pop the teletext - along with the time and date in top right corner. You may have got the odd corrupted character but the vast majority of it would display correctly. With VHS, the teletext display would be mostly corrupted but if you were very lucky indeed, the date information would be intact enough to ascertain.

Finally, with the help of a yearly calendar, you could work out the year from the relationship between Day and Date.
MMcG198197 posts since 14 Dec 2014
UTV Newsline
Regarding the issue of dates to recordings, it is certainly well worth mentioning that if a recording was made on S-VHS (and if you're extremely lucky, VHS as well but to a very hit-and-miss extent), you could/can ascertain the date of the recording very successfully.

Because of its relatively wide bandwidth (for domestic formats at that time), an 'unofficial' feature of S-VHS was that the teletext information, stored in the vertical interval, was quite intact. With the recording in playback mode, you just hit the teletext button on the TV and up would pop the teletext - along with the time and date in top right corner. You may have got the odd corrupted character but the vast majority of it would display correctly. With VHS, the teletext display would be mostly corrupted but if you were very lucky indeed, the date information would be intact enough to ascertain.

Finally, with the help of a yearly calendar, you could work out the year from the relationship between Day and Date.


One of my great regrets is not investing in a SVHS machine back in those days. I did have a Betamax but it was very temperamental - lots of problems with sound. SVHS though produced some great results. I had a few SVHS tapes supplied to me many years ago and the quality was superb. Great resolution and picture/audio stability. I've seen the results of teletext decoding from SVHS and as you say, very good.
D.Page682 posts since 30 Oct 2013
London London
Regarding the issue of dates to recordings, it is certainly well worth mentioning that if a recording was made on S-VHS (and if you're extremely lucky, VHS as well but to a very hit-and-miss extent), you could/can ascertain the date of the recording very successfully.

Because of its relatively wide bandwidth (for domestic formats at that time), an 'unofficial' feature of S-VHS was that the teletext information, stored in the vertical interval, was quite intact. With the recording in playback mode, you just hit the teletext button on the TV and up would pop the teletext - along with the time and date in top right corner. You may have got the odd corrupted character but the vast majority of it would display correctly. With VHS, the teletext display would be mostly corrupted but if you were very lucky indeed, the date information would be intact enough to ascertain.

Finally, with the help of a yearly calendar, you could work out the year from the relationship between Day and Date.


One of my great regrets is not investing in a SVHS machine back in those days. I did have a Betamax but it was very temperamental - lots of problems with sound. SVHS though produced some great results. I had a few SVHS tapes supplied to me many years ago and the quality was superb. Great resolution and picture/audio stability. I've seen the results of teletext decoding from SVHS and as you say, very good.


I was/am a great fan of S-VHS, having used the format since the early nineties. The vast majority of my tape collection is S-VHS and it is capable of excellent quality. Due to me not yet having transferred the material over to digital format, I still have several S-VHS decks. Actually five, two of which are in the loft (haven't got round to putting some of them on eBay yet!).
Last edited by D.Page on 12 January 2017 11:23pm
Robert Williams546 posts since 25 Jan 2003
London London
Even from the start, Paper Cut-Out did seem like the runt of the litter. It's definitely quite dull. A bit too much like a close relative of Copper Cut-Out - but the boring, less animated type of relative.

I always liked Paper Cut-Out. When the 2s first launched, they took a lot of getting used to. It's easy to forget just how outlandish they seemed, compared to what had gone before, as up to then idents had mainly just been the channel logo. Paper Cut-Out, with its relative lack of movement, felt the most traditional, the least 'weird' of all of the original 2s - it looked more like an actual logo than the others. However once I was used to the idea of 'arty' idents, I started to prefer some of the others, though I do still like it.


It was only really when the new batch of 2s launched in late 1993, and I was going through trying to record the new ones, that I noticed that Paper Cut-Out and Glass no longer seemed to be shown at all, and then I had no idea how long it had been since I last saw then. Trying to determine if a particular ident has been withdrawn can be tricky unless you're watching every junction - for example I thought BBC Four has retired its flowers ident along with most of the rest of the 2005 set, as I hadn't seen it for a while, but then the other day, there it was!
Last edited by Robert Williams on 13 January 2017 11:41am
D.Page682 posts since 30 Oct 2013
London London
I rue the day my SVHS player finally gave up. I've so much I'd love to view again and capture. And that's not including holiday videos which I've not been able to watch for twenty years.


In what way did it give up? I may be able to repair it, depending on the fault. I assume you threw it out, though.