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mdtauk5,896 posts since 4 Jan 2003
London London
Just a quick set of ideas for the graphics when BBC News moves into New Broadcasting House. What I have seen so far from the news updates during the Andrew Marr show, the leaks on here, and the new breakfiller on BBC World News, have left me a little disappointed.

So here is how I would move from the current graphics, to HD versions. Hopefully they are cleaner than the current graphics, and are nicer in HD using the Avenir font (same as BBC Two) to replace Gill Sans. Swiss/Arial/Helvetica looks generic and dull, and does not fit the rest of the BBC News branding IMO.


Channel/Programme DOGs

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Channel logo without enclosure

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Channel logo

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National News, News Updates etc

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News Channel and Clock

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BBC Breakfast and Clock

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Newsnight


Straps and Captions

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Newsnight - VT Package Title Caption

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Normal Name Strap

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Blurb Information Strap

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Detailed Information Strap

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Coming Up Event

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Coming Up programme schedule

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Breaking News Flash

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Breaking News Detailed

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World News Programme - Name Strap

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World News Programme - Blurb Strap

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Newsnight - Name Strap

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Newsnight - In Other News roundup strap

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Newsnight - VT package reporter strap


Top Graphics

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Live Shot - With Local Time

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Live - With Location

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Graphic + Live - With Local Time and Location

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Newsnight - Live with Location


Framing and Safe Areas

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Graphics are designed to be 14:9 safe, for the HD feed, SD feeds could have separate graphics but 14:9 safe is pretty safe nowadays.

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14:9

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4:3



UPDATE:
Added video of my updated design

Last edited by mdtauk on 31 December 2012 8:20am - 3 times in total
bilky asko4,531 posts since 9 Sep 2006
Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.
james.91432 posts since 25 May 2012
HTV West Points West
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.


I think this is a load of crap. I think that the whole thing works really well together, they've obviously used the Mocking guide and thought about colour schemes. I think there's just no pleasing some people. I mean the one and only mock "bilky asko" has done is absolutely crap in my opinion.
mdtauk5,896 posts since 4 Jan 2003
London London
bilky asko posted:
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

If you look at the other channels, there is a tendency to go towards small text, in a bolder, all caps type. By using a larger, mixed case Avenir with more weight options, it should be very legible, look good in HD resolutions, and would help it stand out from the other channels.

I strongly believe the choice of Swiss is a mistake, Futura suffers the same in HD as Gill Sans does, Avenir is a font I feel fits alongside the use of Gill Sans for branding and logotypes.

bilky asko posted:
The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The mustard yellow is supposed to be the Orange which is used heavily on the BBC News website. It is slightly transparent which may be throwing it off a bit. Red is a colour which causes havoc with web compression, so My thought is to keep it for minimal uses. Perhaps the orange can be made opaque and strengthened perhaps. I may explore some more options, but these were just quick ideas Smile

bilky asko posted:
The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The News channel uses black, and with the new studio, and smaller sized clock, it may pass by without much furore. I suppose grey, or dark red could be used in place.

bilky asko posted:
The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.

I have tried to take the colours currently used either on air, or on the website. HD handles colours differently from SD tv, so the blacks and whites can be stronger, and colours more vibrant.
mdtauk5,896 posts since 4 Jan 2003
London London
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.


I think this is a load of crap. I think that the whole thing works really well together, they've obviously used the Mocking guide and thought about colour schemes. I think there's just no pleasing some people. I mean the one and only mock "bilky asko" has done is absolutely crap in my opinion.


No need to bring up past mocks etc. I have been making mocks around here for many many years now, and the guys here know I much prefer criticism and critique, to praise or gushing.
Critique2,748 posts since 9 Aug 2009
Anglia (East) Look East
Firstly, I think 'james.914''s comment to Bilky was uncalled for. He was expressing his opinion, and has every right to do so - especially as he expressed it in a constructive, good way, and not just 'is crap, in my opinion', when referring to Bilky's mocks (which IMO are both okay). On top of all this, 'james.914' is the 'genius' behind that 'a.m show' mock, which consisted of a stock image of a bowl of cereal, with some yellow text, and the Channel 4 logo.

Bilky has said many of the things I was going to say, Martin. The orange used for Breaking News just doesn't sit right with me, and just generally doesn't look that good, IMO. I also agree with the comments he made about the use of Avenir - the various weights might be nice, but I don't think it works for BBC News. Overall, I do think it might be the colours used that I'm not fond of.

I wouldn't go as far to say that this looks stale, but I do think that, whilst it is functional and looks okay overall, it doesn't feel like a good change, moving forward. As always, you can tell that time and effort has been put into this - and it does show, but I don't think it's my cup of tea.
623058: it just seems like your an mp3 whore
bilky asko4,531 posts since 9 Sep 2006
Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
mdtauk posted:
bilky asko posted:
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

If you look at the other channels, there is a tendency to go towards small text, in a bolder, all caps type. By using a larger, mixed case Avenir with more weight options, it should be very legible, look good in HD resolutions, and would help it stand out from the other channels.

I strongly believe the choice of Swiss is a mistake, Futura suffers the same in HD as Gill Sans does, Avenir is a font I feel fits alongside the use of Gill Sans for branding and logotypes.

I'm still not fond - I agree that Helvetica and fonts of that ilk can get boring, though. I think a lighter font weight is better for HD - I always liked the light version of Gill Sans, for example.

mdtauk posted:


bilky asko posted:
The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The mustard yellow is supposed to be the Orange which is used heavily on the BBC News website. It is slightly transparent which may be throwing it off a bit. Red is a colour which causes havoc with web compression, so My thought is to keep it for minimal uses. Perhaps the orange can be made opaque and strengthened perhaps. I may explore some more options, but these were just quick ideas Smile

I like the colour itself, but I think it is better used as a replacement for the grey they currently use. Red is a problem colour for many compression schemes, but I still feel it fits in better with breaking news.

mdtauk posted:


bilky asko posted:
The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The News channel uses black, and with the new studio, and smaller sized clock, it may pass by without much furore. I suppose grey, or dark red could be used in place.

I think matching the News Channel clock was the reason it was introduced as black. I suppose there would be more of chance of it going unnoticed if the Breakfast DOG stays on screen.

mdtauk posted:

bilky asko posted:
The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.

I have tried to take the colours currently used either on air, or on the website. HD handles colours differently from SD tv, so the blacks and whites can be stronger, and colours more vibrant.

I think that the colours overall aren't bad (I do like that mustard yellow quite a lot), but I still think they need a bit of rearrangement. As Critique said, there is definitely technical skill evident, and it's not some five-minute job.

james.914 posted:
bilky asko posted:
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.


I think this is a load of crap. I think that the whole thing works really well together, they've obviously used the Mocking guide and thought about colour schemes. I think there's just no pleasing some people. I mean the one and only mock "bilky asko" has done is absolutely crap in my opinion.


I'm merely quoting this to show that I've read what you've said - I think Critique and mdta have covered my response.
Last edited by bilky asko on 23 December 2012 2:33pm
mdtauk5,896 posts since 4 Jan 2003
London London
bilky asko posted:
I'm still not fond - I agree that Helvetica and fonts of that ilk can get boring, though. I think a lighter font weight is better for HD - I always liked the light version of Gill Sans, for example.


I will be working on some tweaked ideas soon, but this cold is kicking my butt, and I have not slept yet. So I guess I will get some sleep very soon, and maybe work more once I awaken.

Anyway, There was some talk about the font being too thick. Here is a look at the font size/weight at it's HD resolution, and scaled down to SD. The font should work in both, so ultra thin would not work on both.

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Jon6,359 posts since 11 Apr 2005
Central (West) Midlands Today
I think Avenir is the wrong choice of font here - it somehow lacks authoritativeness - I also think the weight of the font is skew-whiff in comparison to other news channels.

The mustard yellow breaking news strap seems a bit odd to me - that would possibly work better as the default colour, with red as the breaking news colour.

The black Breakfast clock would never take off - past experience shows people don't like it.

The overall design is OK, but I think the colour schemes are off.


I think this is a load of crap.

No one cares much for your opinion, so you your views won't bother Bilky. Perhaps a few years of not posting juvenile responses like this would help.

I think that the whole thing works really well together, they've obviously used the Mocking guide and thought about colour schemes.

To be honest I don't think the mocking guide was made with mdtauk in mind, considering he's been making consistantly great mocks for some years. We're here to critically analyse people's mocks, we all have different opinions. Personally I think this mock is a nice modernisation of what BBC News currently offers graphically, but I'd like to see a more revolutionary approach. I'm also not sure the font works for BBC News.
I think there's just no pleasing some people. I mean the one and only mock "bilky asko" has done is absolutely crap in my opinion.

bilky asko has a couple of mocks in his gallery and his work generally varies from a decent standard to an excellent piece of work. Did you see the design work he did for a charity venture? I suspect a big charity could go to some expensive expensive agency and get something similar.

Also whilst we're on the subject your one and only mock didn't go down too well, did it?

I think part of the reason you're surprised a decent mock has been criticised is because people have come to expect rubbish, so when something approaching a broadcastable standard appears, it's such a shock people can't help but be exclusively complimentary.
chris3,974 posts since 6 Jul 2005
Granada North West Today
I usually love your work Martin but somehow I feel this mock is just a bit too similar to what we have now. It's pretty much the same only it's not 4:3 safe, the logo and ticker don't stretch to the edge of the screen and you've used a different font. Other than that, is this much more than a recreation rather than a mock? You say what you have seen so far of the NBH graphics leaves you disappointed - I think I would be much more disappointed if we got this. Perhaps if you show us how it may animate, perhaps in a different way to now, I might be more open to liking this mock.