Gluben's posts

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Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

BBC Two 2015 with 90s idents

I'm not a huge fan of the 1997 logo - I just think it worked better on those idents. The current boxless logo isn't weighty enough - it's too small and the font too narrow. Yes, it's visible and legible etc - just not beefy enough next to the large '2'. Whilst Lambie-Nairn's 1997 logo revamp was great in that it brought consistency to the BBC's branding, I wasn't overly fussed on the execution - i.e., the sub-brand in regular font, next to the BBC blocks. That format left the door open to so much variation:

- People making up their own sub-brand logos, with the Gill Sans sub-brand lettering matching the height of the blocks, rather than the height of the 'BBC' lettering within the blocks. BBC Bristol was quite good at that, IIRC.
- The sub-brand lettering being slightly (but noticeably) out of alignment with the 'BBC' lettering inside the blocks.
- Different spacing between the last block and the start of the sub-brand lettering. I remember a version of the BBC Northern Ireland logo, which was used on screen quite a bit, had the 'N' very close to the last block and then a bigger gap between 'Northern' and 'Ireland'. Looked very clumsy.

I really wouldn't want to see the 1997 format making a comeback. Too much scope for people screwing up.


Ooh no, I think the 1997 look and use of logo was perfect. You really couldn't get much clearer, I don't think.

Also, it's already been screwed up! I agree that perhaps we shouldn't return to the past now but the BBC does definitely another big Lambie-Nairn-style rebrand across the board, with emphasis on consistency.
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

BBC Two 2015 with 90s idents

I just don't think the BBC knows or cares about their look or brand any more, nor can they afford to. This isn't the 90s any more, sadly.

I mean, are TV idents in general a bit of a dying art form, in the loosest sense? The last decent idents I remember were Sky Movies' 2011 ones with the 360-degree views (urban, period, fantasy, Western, sci-fi). They were epic, fantastic and memorable to watch. But that was six years ago. Stuff like that is rare now.
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

New look BBC One - Jan 2017

Just out of interest, when was the last time Red Nose Day was particularly funny or original? I'd argue probably around 1999 or 2001. I mean, Catherine Tate and David Walliams again? I dunno, I miss a lot of the risk taking. Maybe it seemed more of an event in the 90s. Now it seems tedious, especially with social media making it seem somehow more...bland.

Shame the balloon was never turned into a giant red nose. Missed opportunity there.
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

New look BBC One - Jan 2017

Nice to see this has hit 100 pages!!

The Radio Times shows a photograph of Parr on a stepladder from behind capturing the exercise class, a different photo than we have seen before.

The viewer that has written in praises the idents and finds them intriguing and asks where the idea came from...


Of course they did...urgh...

It's damage control - what would you expect?

The amount of people praising the oneness 'idents' is an extremely small amount - it doesn't help that it came after the circles - and it then became hated by viewers, just as what happened in 2002. The difference however was that Rhythm and Movement stayed true to the red motif of ONE, and the production values were good for what it was.

All of what the oneness set suffers from the lack of thereof.


I expected nothing less, but I'm still fed up with it.
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

New look BBC One - Jan 2017

On a whim, I decided to email Martin Lambie-Nairn at his new company, M L-N, and jokingly asked:

Quote:
Hi Martin,

Is there a way you can possibly liaise to the BBC Creative team? The idents for both BBC One and BBC Two are simply appalling!

Kind regards,

Glenn Reuben


Obviously, I knew it was a stupid question and didn't expect a reply, but lo and behold, the man did...

Quote:
Hi Glenn,

I cannot remember if I responded to you re. your email about BBC 1 and BBC2 new dents.

Am currently in Brazil with limited email etc. But now am able to respond.

You ask if I have influence with the BBC design department. The simple answer is no. Even when I was creative director for brand at the BBC, I had no influence over the internal design department. That is why everything designed by me and my people was also produced by us.

However, the real answer to your question is is to be found elsewhere than amongst designers, internal or external.

On my departure from the BBC the Marketing people assumed responsibility for branding. Creativity became the servant of these people who held the budget and therefore the say so. Since that time the BBC has produces nothing of interest.

I still have not seen the work you refer to, but you are not the only person to contact me with the same comments. I can only assume that the same creative management holds sway and as long as it does the creative reputation, so hard won, will continue to disintegrate.

It is a shame, but creative leadership in the area of branding is in the hands of people who have budgets but absolutely no idea of how to judge or design great an effective work. Worst still they have no desire to listen.

However, these things come round again.

My experience is that one day someone with vision will wake up and realise that the systems and people who manage creativity in this area are not equipped to do so and changes will be made.

Maybe next time you may get a crack.

Regards

Martin
57
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

New look BBC One - Jan 2017

- People's idea of bringing back the balloons, or the myriad ideas for alternatives shows why Gluben's idea of starting a TV presentation company (which I cannot even slightly imagine being financially viable, let alone successful or a producer of good work) is a terrible idea


Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you with my idea! Realistically, of course I don't think I could even think of forming a TV presentation company. Sure, it's a nice pipe dream, but I'm obviously not going to do it.

I guess it's like when you ask fans to come up with a piece of work for their favourite artist or TV show; inevitably, it's awful.

Again, no harm meant!
Gluben496 posts since 15 Jan 2004
Anglia (East) Look East

New look BBC One - Jan 2017

I think it was a case of people hating losing the globe/balloons more than hating the Rhythm & Movement idents. As far as pres-fans were concerned they came during an era where "people idents" were en vogue. Pres-fans generally prefer a bit of CGI.

Yeah, and I want to talk about this, because I genuinely believe that CGI/Symbol idents are dead in this day and age. Commentators including the sainted Applemask often pine for them to come back, and I believe it comes from the same piece of nostalgia in our brains that wants regional frontcaps back: it's not going to happen, shut up about it, let's move on.

However, I also think that real people crap like what we have been given are also rubbish. We've seen the reactions to them from various channels over the years and they don't seem to do well.

So... something in the middle... something that's real world but also with effects and a bit of CGI... perhaps those Channel 4 idents were actually good after all...


I still think there's a place for symbol idents, provided they're done properly. It doesn't all have to be CGI, but having a central symbol creates a strong ident package. I don't see why everything has to be real world, and if it has to be, don't include people as any shots of people look embarrassing.