The Newsroom

BBC World News from New Broadcasting House

14th January 2013 - The Worlds Newsroom (January 2013)

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BA
Bail Moderator
Pete posted:
Doesn't one of the CNN programmes use that horrible technique too?

I'm pretty sure The Situation Room on CNN uses it quite a bit. Also featured quite heavily during their election coverage.


...except it was actually quite steady.

That's 100% a Steadicam rather than on the shoulder however.
GI
ginnyfan
They use it on IDesk all the time and its not shaky, I guess their cameramen are trained and used to it. On BBC World, all of these attempts were a mess so far.
CH
Charles
They use it on IDesk all the time and its not shaky, I guess their cameramen are trained and used to it. On BBC World, all of these attempts were a mess so far.


I concur. I've gotten used to seeing it on both CNNs even though I'm still not a fan of it, and their cameramen have made it look decent. Watching World Have Your Say looked like there was a minor tremor in Studio B.
BA
bakamann
They use it on IDesk all the time and its not shaky, I guess their cameramen are trained and used to it. On BBC World, all of these attempts were a mess so far.


I believe the CNN either has the Steadicam or something that has a weight at the bottom of the leg to make it steady, while BBC's WHYS still have the old "camera in the shoulders" thing.
KN
knack
Is this kind of earthquake cam work a frequent occurrence on BBC World News now?



Is this done to make the programme seem more urgent? Makes me feel sea sick.


It's worrying that nobody at the BBC realises how bad this looks, or, if they do, does something about it.
DK
DanielK
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'
HA
harshy Founding member
knack posted:
Is this kind of earthquake cam work a frequent occurrence on BBC World News now?



Is this done to make the programme seem more urgent? Makes me feel sea sick.


It's worrying that nobody at the BBC realises how bad this looks, or, if they do, does something about it.


They are using Bbc world news as a guinea pig to iron out its difficulties before unleashing to a uk audience.
BA
Bail Moderator
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'

They won't have. A Steadicam takes years of practice to master, it's a skill you learn, not by watching youtube tutorials. And I won't comment on your using a tripod as a stabiliser idea...
NG
noggin Founding member
Bail posted:
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'

They won't have. A Steadicam takes years of practice to master, it's a skill you learn, not by watching youtube tutorials. And I won't comment on your using a tripod as a stabiliser idea...


Exactly.

The issue looks to be one of experience and training. Buying new kit won't get round that - and isn't the solution.

There's no reason for handheld to be that bad - you just need to have someone who knows what they are doing holding the camera. Looking at the clip - it appears they aren't helping themselves by working at the wrong end of the lens and too far from the presenter. The closer the camera is and the wider you are the more you reduce the visibility of wobbles. And you need to be able to hold a camera steady in the first place. It also helps if you have a pretty wide angle lens on the camera to start with - the last thing you want to do is go handheld with a tight lens that's been specified for tight close-ups at a reasonable distance.

There are plenty of shows that work handheld, without Steadicams or other stabilising devices, with no major issues. Look at Top Gear, think back to the Big Breakfast.

Buying a Steadicam, and putting someone with little/no experience into a harness is also a great way of wrecking their back... (You usually have to schedule in breaks for Steadicam ops as well as it is a physically demanding job which you can't rest from in the same way that you can with a normal handheld camera)

** EDIT **

However this shouldn't be that much of a surprise should it? Unless News have recruited new camera operators for NBH, they don't have a history of running handheld in the studio. (Sportsround used to hire in a non-News camera op for their handheld stuff) It's not something they've done much of in TVC - so to expect experienced ped ops to suddenly pick up a camera and work handheld is a bit of an ask I guess. It
Last edited by noggin on 13 February 2013 11:28am - 3 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'


I suspect lots of those tutorials are designed for people using very lightweight devices like DSLRs or self-shooting camcorders like the EX3 or XF305.

The studios at W1 are using standard Sony handheld system cameras (Sony HSC 300s I think) These are quite a lot heavier (camera body approx 4.5kg, lens approx 2kg) - so the overall unit is around 6-7kg. This is more than 4 times the weight of a typical SLR set-up (a 5D body is only 0.8kg) and around twice the weight of something like a 305.

In fact cameras like the HSC-300 and the HDC-2500 are lighter than previous generations, but the lenses aren't, so the cameras are now quite 'front heavy', so you find experienced handheld operators actually put weights on the back of the camera to balance the weight of the lens and make them easier to hold when not on the shoulder. (Lots of handheld is done at waist level rather than on the shoulder)
BA
Bail Moderator
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'


I suspect lots of those tutorials are designed for people using very lightweight devices like DSLRs or self-shooting camcorders like the EX3 or XF305.

The studios at W1 are using standard Sony handheld system cameras (Sony HSC 300s I think) These are quite a lot heavier (camera body approx 4.5kg, lens approx 2kg) - so the overall unit is around 6-7kg. This is more than 4 times the weight of a typical SLR set-up (a 5D body is only 0.8kg) and around twice the weight of something like a 305.

In fact cameras like the HSC-300 and the HDC-2500 are lighter than previous generations, but the lenses aren't, so the cameras are now quite 'front heavy', so you find experienced handheld operators actually put weights on the back of the camera to balance the weight of the lens and make them easier to hold when not on the shoulder. (Lots of handheld is done at waist level rather than on the shoulder)

Do you know what lenses they are using at all Noggin? I can't tell from the various photos because they're hidden by the autocue hoods.
NG
noggin Founding member
Bail posted:
Hopefully they have done something and ordered a Steadicam kt, although on YT there are various tutorials on using a tripid as a 'Steadicam'


I suspect lots of those tutorials are designed for people using very lightweight devices like DSLRs or self-shooting camcorders like the EX3 or XF305.

The studios at W1 are using standard Sony handheld system cameras (Sony HSC 300s I think) These are quite a lot heavier (camera body approx 4.5kg, lens approx 2kg) - so the overall unit is around 6-7kg. This is more than 4 times the weight of a typical SLR set-up (a 5D body is only 0.8kg) and around twice the weight of something like a 305.

In fact cameras like the HSC-300 and the HDC-2500 are lighter than previous generations, but the lenses aren't, so the cameras are now quite 'front heavy', so you find experienced handheld operators actually put weights on the back of the camera to balance the weight of the lens and make them easier to hold when not on the shoulder. (Lots of handheld is done at waist level rather than on the shoulder)

Do you know what lenses they are using at all Noggin? I can't tell from the various photos because they're hidden by the autocue hoods.


Not sure for certain - but think they went Fuji rather than Canon.

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